In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Winter blend gasoline VS Summer blend ?

Discussion in 'Chainsaws and Power Equipment' started by bogydave, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. bogydave

    bogydave

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    10,313
    Likes Received:
    37,217
    Location:
    Alaska, North of Anchorage & South of Fairbanks
    Which is better ?
    Not sure what the difference is,
    Winter blend is easier to produce, & a bit cheaper.
    What's in the summer blend that makes it cost more & handle
    the higher ambient temperatures ?

    Popular mechanics article:
    "During the summer heat, the RVP of gas has to be especially low to keep it from boiling off. The EPA mandates an RVP maximum of anywhere between 9.0 PSI and 7.8 PSI for summer-grade fuel, depending on region (though you get a fudge factor of 1 psi for using gas blended with 10 percent ethanol). There are even lower RVP-rated fuels for cities like Houston, New York, and L.A. Different states and cities have their own rules based upon their seasonal temperatures—Washington state needs different summer gas than, say, Florida. That’s why there are so many blends. To make it more complicated, the time for switching from summer- to winter-blend gasoline varies by state too.

    Generally, the lower the RVP of a gas blend, the more it costs. For example, in winter you can blend butane, which is relatively plentiful and cheap, with gasoline. But butane, which has an RVP of 52 on its own, can’t be used in summer, when it would immediately boil off as a gas. So "purer" summer gasoline is by default costlier. (And there are other factors at play too. More people travel in summer during peak driving season, for instance, putting more stress on demand.) "

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...-blend-gasoline-whats-the-difference-13747431

    So what does that mean for chain saws, which is better ?
    What gasoline is in the pre-mix you can buy now(winter or summer blend)?

    My thoughts are the summer blend is better, purer gasoline, flash point is lower so less high end evaporation in a vented saw tank . Should store better in a sealed jug & less vapor flash off during use.

    I do notice my plastic gas jugs like to swell , due to the vapor pressure.
    Maybe a good , tight metal jug is better gasoline storage. ?
     
  2. IHATEPROPANE

    IHATEPROPANE

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,671
    Likes Received:
    19,075
    All I know is my Jeep loses 2 mpg as soon as the cold hits.
     
  3. bogydave

    bogydave

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    10,313
    Likes Received:
    37,217
    Location:
    Alaska, North of Anchorage & South of Fairbanks
    Heavier loads, fuel & thicker lubes ?
     
    Oliver1655 and IHATEPROPANE like this.
  4. haveissues

    haveissues

    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    2,060
    Location:
    Hudson Valley
    I suspect pushing a box through colder, more dense air is also a factor.
     
    Oliver1655, papadave and IHATEPROPANE like this.
  5. MasterMech

    MasterMech The Mechanical Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    26,018
    Location:
    Greenville County SC
    Human factor as well. We tend to let 'em "Warm up" longer, newer cars have remote starts that get used more often in the winter. More frequent bad weather conditions as well, increased usage of the 4WD system and of course wheel spin.

    I get REALLY lousy mileage when it snows. ;) :p
     
  6. badbob

    badbob

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    9,946
    Location:
    bozeman pass,park county,MT 6500'
    Being a mechanic,and used to sell bg products(44k is still the best )you all are right.Out here winter blend is allowed to add more products(ethanol mostly) for better cold weather starting and decreased emmissions.Quite some time ago they only told us it was "oxeganated" fuel.Ran fine,poor mileage.Also when temps got below -15 a chemical reaction happened in fuel tanks,and a fine brown powder plugged intank filters,burned up pumps and injector problems.A lot of gas stations got blamed needlessly,this is your government at work.Out here it is winter blend 8-9 months of the year.So when you go to a pump that says"no ethanol" for regular,not true if it is winter blend,as they do not use the other oxagenator chemicals anymore.Just found out my buddy that has one of the last independant stations,that has ethanol free,put the station up for sale,don't know what I'm going to do for my small engines.And by the way,anything ethanol produces less hp per gal,so you use more fuel to go the same distance.So your emmissions are less,but you are using more fuel,another lie about ethanol.
     
    clemsonfor and PullinMyPoulan like this.
  7. bogydave

    bogydave

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    10,313
    Likes Received:
    37,217
    Location:
    Alaska, North of Anchorage & South of Fairbanks
    Like driving up hill all the time with the tires packing down snow.
    Walking & driving on sand in the winter would be better, Hawaii, Florida :yes:
     
  8. badbob

    badbob

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    9,946
    Location:
    bozeman pass,park county,MT 6500'
    Yep,burned up a lot of gas in the 70's in N carolina,surf fishing,tires at 10 psi,don't slow down in the soft spots or have to get the anchor and come a long out!Good times though!
     
  9. Adirondackstihl

    Adirondackstihl

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    440
    Winter blend is garbage.
    My CRV dropped from 26.5mpg down to 20.8 3 weeks ago
     
  10. raybonz

    raybonz Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    4,225
    Likes Received:
    9,758
    Location:
    Carver, Mass.
    I have read that ethanol gets terrible mileage! Corn ethanol is produced ONLY because the corn lobbyists bribe our country.. It is proven that corn ethanol takes almost energy to create that it produces.. Not a good thing.. Brazil uses sugar cane which is FAR better for this purpose.. I have read that USA should grow switchgrass for this purpose NOT corn which also drives the cost of food corn high too.. Last time I checked nobody was eating switchgrass..
     
    PullinMyPoulan and IHATEPROPANE like this.
  11. CTYank

    CTYank

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2014
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    850
    Location:
    CT Panhandle
    It's all about the "light-ends"- gaseous hydrocarbons that are added to winter-blend gasoline. Stuff like methane, ethane, propane, butane. For cold-starting, they give the sparks something to ignite. That's what the "RVP" thing was about- "Reid Vapor Pressure".

    Liquid fuel won't burn. Vaporize it and away we go. Come summer and they'll cook off; don't need it then anyway.

    Avgas has a different problem. Light ends can get you vapor lock up around 10-15 thousand feet. Flameout and coast. So, not much light ends in avgas- makes for interesting complaints when folks run it in a chainsaw, sometimes.

    Nobody should be burning up all that corn-likker. :loco: :crazy:
     
    raybonz likes this.
  12. lukem

    lukem

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    11,577
    Likes Received:
    61,189
    Location:
    IN
    Modern automatic transmissions burn a lot of fuel by leaving the torque converter unlocked until it gets up to temp.
     
    PullinMyPoulan and Carbine like this.
  13. MasterMech

    MasterMech The Mechanical Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    26,018
    Location:
    Greenville County SC
    Nothing really wrong with that as it has benefits for trans longevity and driveability and only affects fuel economy when the engine is likely to be cold and acting all pig-like anyways. Hell the TH400 behind my big-block doesn't even have a locking converter but then again trying to save fuel with that engine is a lost cause.
     
    clemsonfor and lukem like this.
  14. lukem

    lukem

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    11,577
    Likes Received:
    61,189
    Location:
    IN
    My 6r80 doesn't lock up for several miles when it's 20 or below. Not saying there's anything wrong with that. ..just the way it is.
     
  15. MasterMech

    MasterMech The Mechanical Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    26,018
    Location:
    Greenville County SC
    The 4L60E in my Canyon was the same way.
     
  16. bassJAM

    bassJAM

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,999
    Likes Received:
    6,020
    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    I had a Ford Ranger that actually got better gas mileage in the winter. But the rest of my cars all drop 1-2 mpg with the winter blend. You can tell when they change the blend, because it's an immediate change from one tank of gas to the next.
     
    raybonz likes this.
  17. lukem

    lukem

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    11,577
    Likes Received:
    61,189
    Location:
    IN
    My 96 ranger was the same way. The butt dyno said it made better power too (not that a Ranger makes a lot of power).
     
    clemsonfor and bassJAM like this.
  18. badbob

    badbob

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    9,946
    Location:
    bozeman pass,park county,MT 6500'
    Totally agree,his statement makes no sense.If you lock up convertor before all other operating systems are up to par you are actually wasting fuel.By the way master,I have put lock up convertors in th400's,Almost put one in my pellet hauler,J100 jeep golden eagle 401,used to haul a camper,but ran the numbers and would take 10 years to pay off the savings?Kind of like solar?:D
     
    MasterMech likes this.
  19. MasterMech

    MasterMech The Mechanical Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    26,018
    Location:
    Greenville County SC
    If it helped that 454 get another 1 MPG it would look pretty good expressed as a percentage. :)
     
    clemsonfor and raybonz like this.
  20. badbob

    badbob

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    9,946
    Location:
    bozeman pass,park county,MT 6500'
    Only over a period of time,cost factor.