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Which stove companies can you trust?

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Backwoods Savage, Feb 22, 2016.

  1. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Moderator

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    Wood and pellet stove companies that you can trust – and those you can’t


    When it comes to listing accurate efficiency and BTU output on their websites, there are only a handful of companies that you can trust.

    If a consumer calculates the pay back period of am Enviro EF2 pellet stove based on the 87% efficiency listed on the Enviro website, they may be sorely disappointed. The independent lab that tested the stove found that the stove is only 58% efficient, meaning nearly half of the energy in the pellets goes up the chimney and does not heat the home.

    Enviro is not alone in exaggerating their efficiency. Most wood and pellet stove manufacturers use a variety of ways to say their stoves are more efficient than they actually are, and that they put out more heat than they actually do. BTU output is the other area where manufacturers routinely report misleading data to consumers and in the case of BTU output, even the EPA is willing to post those exaggerated numbers on its website, further contributing to the problem.

    These issues are coming to light in the wake of new EPA regulations that require more accurate reporting and require manufacturers to post the test reports of independent labs that certify wood and pellet stoves. Many stove manufacturers are not complying with the new rules and will not post their certification reports for consumers to see, but some companies are complying.

    A few companies stand out for providing the same efficiency numbers to their consumers as the independent test lab provided to the EPA. They are: Blaze King, Kuma and Seraph, Travis and Woodstock Soapstone. These companies also tend to make higher quality stoves and have good efficiency numbers. Consumers can trust the efficiency numbers that these companies post on their websites and in their promotional materials.

    The same is not true of other companies, including many leading brands. Most companies list efficiencies using the European (LHV) method, which can produce efficiencies of more than 100% and make their stoves appear 5 - 8 points higher than they actually are. But some companies go further, publishing efficiencies that are 15 – 29 points higher than they actually are. The most extreme examples come from Enviro and American Energy Systems. Enviro posts 87% efficiency for their EF2 on their tax credit page, but the lab tested it at 58% efficiency, a 29 point difference. (The company did not reply to a query about the discrepancy.) American Energy Systems claims its Little Rascal pellet stove is 99% efficient, 28 points higher than 71% the lab posted. (A company representative explained that when they say “efficiency” they mean combustion efficiency, not the thermal or heating efficiency that all other companies list.)

    Another company, St. Croix pellet stoves, tells consumers their Hasting pellet stove is 83% efficient but the lab tested it at 66% efficient, a 17 point difference. The largest stove maker in the country, Hearth & Home Technologies, that owns Dutchwest, Harman, Heatilator, Quadra-Fire, Vermont Castings and others brands, is notably absent in disclosing test lab reports or actual efficiencies of their products.

    One of the foremost experts in the hearth industry is Dr. James Houck, an adjunct faculty member at the University of Portland in Oregon. Houck used to work for Omni Test labs, the most well known test lab in the US. He says, “Many of the pellet (and cordwood) stove efficiency values have been produced by commercial labs which optimized conditions and calculation methods."

    Under the new EPA stove regulations, known as New Source Performance Standards (NSPS), labs are restrained from optimizing conditions and calculation methods and will be producing more accurate efficiency and BTU output numbers for consumers. Still, labs are under pressure from their clients to produce the best possible emission, efficiency and BTU numbers, or they may take their business to another lab…
     
  2. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    Dennis, Thank you so much for posting this! Informed consumers need to know that the numbers being thrown out are not always comparable!
     
  3. Eric VW

    Eric VW Moderator

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  4. saskwoodburner

    saskwoodburner

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    So, when the word efficiency comes up, is it only a measure of thermal efficiency (put in this much wood, get X amount of heat) and not emissions?

    Wouldn't the lab try to recreate optimum burning conditions for the particular stove to replicate real world numbers?

    In any event, it would be nice to see how all stoves stack up compared to one another.
     
  5. HDRock

    HDRock

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    Good to know Travis industries is listed here:)

    A few companies stand out for providing the same efficiency numbers to their consumers as the independent test lab provided to the EPA. They are: Blaze King, Kuma and Seraph, Travis and Woodstock Soapstone. These companies also tend to make higher quality stoves and have good efficiency numbers. Consumers can trust the efficiency numbers that these companies post on their websites and in their promotional materials.
     
  6. MightyWhitey

    MightyWhitey

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    Liars figure; and figures lie.
     
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  7. Machria

    Machria

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    "A few companies stand out for providing the same efficiency numbers to their consumers as the independent test lab provided to the EPA. They are: Blaze King, Kuma and Seraph, Travis and Woodstock Soapstone. These companies also tend to make higher quality stoves and have good efficiency numbers. Consumers can trust the efficiency numbers that these companies post on their websites and in their promotional materials."

    Reads better now! :D
     
  8. bushpilot

    bushpilot

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    Source?
     
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  9. Eric VW

    Eric VW Moderator

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    I've heard similar...."liars always figure, but figures never lie."
     
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  10. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    I have contacted 3 companies since moving here with 2 stoves in the home we bought and then replacing them. They were all fantastic customer service. They are Blaze King, Drolet and Englander. Blaze King was great for me with phone support from experts, and they are in PST so I could call after 5pm my time, Englander was the best and I did not have to pick up the phone, lots of resources on the web and the certain valuable member here... Drolet was good too, but I had difficulty understanding them with an accent.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
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  11. schlot

    schlot

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    Say what???? A big corporation feeding us inaccurate numbers? Never!!!

    Next thing you will tell me is that political candidates don't always come through on their campaign promises! :)
     
  12. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Moderator

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    John Ackerly: Alliance for Green Heat.
     
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  13. bushpilot

    bushpilot

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    Thank you!
     
  14. Horkn

    Horkn

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    That's always important to me.

    I'm very happy with my Quadrafire. I also only payed less than a tenth of what it was new. Quadrafire, VC, Napoleon, and others make inserts that are very nice to look at. Now, I see that even the new version of my 4100 isn't any cleaner burning than mine.


    Lopi needs to work on their dealer base around me. They'd probably sell more of they had more retail stores that sold them.

    All companies need to make the cleanest burning stoves they can. Not all need to be cat stoves, but it should average out. Just like in cars, sleds, bikes, etc.
     
  15. hman

    hman

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    I am also glad that the Kuma line of stoves made it also.I have had my Kuma Scott Ht stove since 2002 and it is made internally the same as the Tamarack is.The only difference is the door and its adjustable.
    I had called Kuma a couple of years ago to ask them what the difference was between my Scott Ht and the Tamarack and that they had the same efficiency ratings.
     
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  16. TurboDiesel

    TurboDiesel

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    I agree, but the EPA will probably set some new standards that will force out the tube stoves and have them replaced with cat stoves. Give them time...they will screw something up...

    I like my cat stove...but its not for everyone! especially people that wait till fall to cut their firewood and let it season till the beginning of the heating season
     
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  17. TurboDiesel

    TurboDiesel

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    wow, there are some big names in the notably absent column
     
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  18. TurboDiesel

    TurboDiesel

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    is there a link to the epa testing results anywhere ?
    would be a great resource to post up for anyone searching for a new stove comparo
     
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  19. bushpilot

    bushpilot

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    Yep, but my hidden agenda alarm is sounding. Something just seems wrong.
     
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  20. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Yeah, something stinks. And it's not the dog this time.