Time for a new wood furnace

We have an old forced-air wood furnace. Like 40 years old. Last year I spent a little time researching a replacement but the commander in chief (wife) said no way. The chimney cleaners inspected the furnace last week and found a crack in the metal liner. She contacted a local wood stove/furnace supplier and they said parts are long gone and to replace it.

I'm happy because burns lasting past 4 hours and a working thermostat control will be heaven.

Offhand, I have a few questions:
1) How to size the furnace properly
2) How much to spend as in what more do I get from a $5000 Kuuma vs. a $1000 Home Depot model. (I doubt we can swing for the Kuuma, otherwise I'd simply buy one)
3) Is there a difference between a wood/coal vs. a wood only furnace?

Thanks,

David

 

Fire Chief FC450 Indoor Wood & Coal Burning Furnace | WoodlandDirect.com: Wood Stoves
Do not own one but good things are said of these

 

1. It's not that simple...how much area are you heating and how well insulated would you say it is? Wood heater manufacturers ratings aren't all that reliable either...many (most) are overrated as far as sq footage.

2. Well it is a little like Cadillac vs Cavalier...they are both transportation, but the Caddy is a whole lot nicer to live with. With that said, there are some decent options out there without breaking the bank (and there will be even more options after next spring when it becomes illegal to sell the old smoke dragon furnaces) BTW, the Kuuma really is the pinnacle of wood fired forced air furnaces.
Drolet makes a couple good options for ya. The Tundra, which is said to heat up to 2500 sq ft (IMO 2000 sq ft is more realistic unless you have a real tight house) and then they make the larger Heatpro which is supposed to heat up to 3000 sq ft. Both good options (and just FYI, Menards has the Tundra on sale for $1169 right now after rebate which is the cheapest I have ever seen 'em...that is a lot of furnace for the money! It would be worth the trip to a Ohio Menards to pick one up IMO...or see what they charge to have it shipped to you maybe)
PSG also makes the Caddy furnace, which is the original design that the Tundra was copied from (same parent company) for about $3k and then the Max Caddy, which is where the Heatpro came from, adds another $1500 or so onto the Heatpro price.

3. Yes there is...wood/coal furnace burns either...but neither very well. A wood/coal furnace is usually just a coal furnace with added dampers to allow air in above the fire instead of just below like a coal fire wants. It burns fine but it is not efficient...or clean burning. If you want to burn coal...get a known quality built coal furnace...it you want to burn wood...get a modern "EPA" style firebox in furnace form.

Many people that come from using an old school heater like yours are amazed at the improved efficiency's with the modern burners...1/3 to as much as 1/2 the wood usage is not uncommon...and a cleaner chimney...and 8-10 (even 12) hour burn times are normal...they do take a little getting used to running them...and they pretty much NEED dry wood to work correctly.
FWIW, if you want to go cheap...there are a bunch of the old school wood furnaces (like Hotblast and Clayton) on CL all the time for low money.
If you have been shopping HD, then your are obviously looking at the Englander 28-3500...which is a decent little furnace...but still is old school...Englander is rumored to have a replacement for the 28-3500 designed around their famed NC30 stove firebox...actually more than a rumor...they have admitted it.

That's enough for now...hope this helps more than confuses!

 

dgeesaman,

I would second brenndatomu points.

I would say that a friend of mine put a Kuuma in last year at this time. He said he hasn't regretted it for one minute.

 

Great points brenndatomu.

Is anyone familiar with DS stoves out of Lancaster, PA? I have my eye on a Kozy King but it would be great to hear from someone familiar with these units.
DS Stoves - Kozy King Furnace 300-09 - Wood or Coal

 

Good help everyone. I really can't justify a Kuuma - being in SE PA, I burn 2-3 cords per year currently. It would take many years for that furnace to justify its cost no matter what the savings are.

Tundra vs. PSG: what do you get by going up to the PSG over the Tundra?

 

Well, the Caddys have been around for a long time with a good track record...you have to buy them through a dealer, and most dealers will not let you do a DIY install.
The Tundra is aimed at the DIY market and connects to the house via (2) 8" ducts unlike the Caddys which use a standard plenum. The DIY part is what SBI (the parent company of both brands) says is to blame for most of the problems with the Tundras...I'm sure that is part of it no doubt.
FYI, the Tundra II has just been released and uses a plenum just like the Caddy now...so really very little difference between them if you buy a TII (the Menards sale is the original Tundras) other than price, which has gone on about $500 on TII but will still be $1000 or so less than a Caddy.

 

They are supposed to be a well built stove as far as that goes...they are still a combo unit so old school burner...not a ton of these out there it seems, there was a guy asking for experiences on DS furnaces on another forum...didn't get a lot of response...I think the one guy that did have one liked it well enough though...I think DS has a big Amish customer base (Amish built too I believe)

 

These are also available at Menards under the Shelter brand name

 

Thanks for the input.

One thing i failed to mention, and it's probably important, is that my home is a 60x30' ranch on slab foundation. All HVAC air leaves the furnace room through the slab in embedded metal ducting and returns via a collection ducting in the attic space. Therefore the hot air is currently blown "down" into the ducts in what is called a downflow installation. This is not the ideal situation, because hot air naturally rises. The other downside is fire risk - if power goes out, the blower stops, and the hot air stops flowing, causing the furnace to develop a lot of heat if it's full of wood.

I spoke with a couple of wood stove/furnace dealers in my area and both have done indoor wood furnaces but neither have heard of one installed with downflow ducting. I know that this was a configuration not all furnace suppliers will agree to, so he called a couple of his suppliers and his suppliers said 'no'. I have in my notes from last year that Kuuma Lamppa and Drolet Heatmax do allow downflow ducting. Not sure about the other Drolet models, but I would happily drive to Ohio or pay to have one shipped here for that sale price. In any case, my first touches to find a drop-in replacement with local suppliers were not encouraging.

One supplier offered a couple of other ideas:
1) an outdoor wood burner that is installed just outside of my house with exit and inlet ducting piped directly into my home's ducting.
2) 500g propane tank, propane add-on furnace, and a thermostat to only run the gas furnace when the outside temperature is really low. This way it runs when the heat pump is least efficient. He pointed out that propane is under $1.00/gal at wholesale, and if I buy my own 500g propane tank I can get that pricing. It would end my firewood hoarding - it wouldn't gut me but I'd miss it.
3) install a regular common wood stove. I'm not sure I'm a fan, as I'd have to bring wood into the house and the heat would be very uneven.

The other supplier advised that even if he had the perfect answer, his people could not get to this project until spring.

I'm inclined at this point to tear apart our old furnace, clean it out, and try to repair it to get through winter. I suspect I could design some replacement parts and call in a favor or two with local weld/sheetmetal shops to get my parts made without spending a fortune. The downside is that if I'm successful, I'm sure my wife would happily pretend the problem is permanently solved.

 

All I can say is, don't prove your wife right. You'll never heard the end of it.

 

Yup, kind of an important detail. One thing you can do as a workaround for the downflow situation is to install a emergency heat dump...it is just a door in the plenum that drops open if the internal temp gets too high, such as during a power outage. It just has a fusible link that melts to allow door to open. I have one on my Yukon just for peace of mind. I bought mine from Yukon for a lil over $100, I think there are a couple other manufacturers that make 'em too.

It won't stay that way...

Great idea for a slab ranch style home. Depending on the layout of your house you may be surprised how well it can work with just a fan or two at the far corners of the house pushing cold air back toward the stove. Even if the stove didn't provide all of your heat, it would still take a large chunk out of the heat bill. Many people here do this.
And hauling wood into the house doesn't have to be messy...I do it with carpet in the living room and there is no mess at all. Just use a bucket or a plastic tub to haul the wood in. I keep a brush by the stove to sweep the tile in front of the stove after every loading, just to guarantee keeping things tidy.

That sale price they have on the original Tundras may end at the end of this week...dunno, but one thing I can almost guarantee is that once they run out of those T1 Tundras, they're gone. And the TIIs are another $500 or so more than the T1s were...that puts 'em in the $2k range if you catch a sale.

 

This would be the route I would go if you can, I think you will burn less wood. I can also agree, it is not that messy, I have an insert in a carpeted area living room.

 

I'm familiar with a heat dump. It'd be foolish to not install one. The only question is whether to dump the hot air right into the furnace room or to spend the money to vent it outside of the house. (It's a small furnace room)

No doubt. You cannot make cost projections using today's exact propane price. Right now they the propane guys are making calls to customers begging to let them top off tanks. One change from OPEC to drive up crude prices and propane goes right back up. But a 500gal tank keeps you in wholesale market which helps.

I suppose the thing I struggle with is giving up the wonderful heat distribution we have now. I love building a fire and feeling the warm air popping up in every register in the house. The only part of the house with enough room for a stove is the opposite end from the bedrooms. With a single narrow hallway down the center of the house, will I be able to circulate air effectively? That said, my fireplace is over there - would a good insert have similar capacity to a freestanding stove?

I'm going to look into it in more detail. I agree this is a one-time closeout deal. I can do a little DIY but this is not something I want to install and have bugs to work out - just not safe. So I also need to get in touch with some contractors who can install it properly. I half wonder - if I buy it, can I flip it for the cost if I don't use it?

Sorry I'm asking very basic questions about a wide range of options, but I'm feeling pretty rushed to make a big choice.

 

Women don't need proof to be certain they are right

 

That'd be a good question to post in a new thread here...get the masses to jump in with their experiences. I think your situation is pretty common and people still make it work.
Many people like their sleeping areas a lil cooler anyway...

Close, maybe a bit less. Depends on how big your FP is and what size insert you can put in it...as long as you can fit one of the proper size you'll be fine with an insert...just don't work during power outage.
As I mentioned before, even if you just put a LP furnace in, a wood stove could still take a large bite out of the LP bill annually.

 

I have a raised ranch and my insert is on the opposite end of the bedrooms and down stairs in a finished family room. I also have natural gas hot water boiler, my insert will not carry the load completely when it gets into single digits. In your situation it may well though.

 

I've got a 1700sq ft ranch, full basement, and ng furnace with a good sized insert on the far end of my house. Granted, last season was my first year running this insert in my house, but the gas savings were insane. In the few really cold days, the insert needed help from the furnace.

Now, my house still has a few inefficient windows, one door that's not insulated, and needs more insulation in general. But I'd say you can do it. We are pretty far north and get real cold winters here typically.

 

Woodchuck made by Myers Mfg is a decent one .
I've had one for about 15 years .
Had to weld 2 small cracks last year. I've run it hard so it was expected.
I'd be inclined to try a Yukon next if I wasnt moving in the near future.

 

After reading into the Yukon, they are both reasonably priced and have two listed installers close by. Best of all, they have documented notes on installations in counterflow ducting (downflow) provided that the heat dump kit is installed.

My wife is now asking whether there are any firewood/wood pellet stoves. Obviously there are firewood/coal stoves but she's not keen on relying on coal. But I've never heard of firewood/pellet before. Is that even a thing?