The CRAZY world of buying used equipment. A cautionary tale

BE WARNED...THIS IS VERY, VERY LONG POST

I've been kicking around buying an excavator for 15 years. I bought a 3 point mounted backhoe 20yrs ago and while it works, it definitely lacks capability in a lot of areas. Hence, the desire for said excavator. I've borrowed friend's and relative's equipment, but I'm tired of repairing other people's machines. I've replaced countless worn out, blown hoses, replaced lost oil, one valve section and the biggie (final straw) a final drive on a KX91.

Work areas:

200 acres of tilable, tiled (clay, not plastic) land with a rolling topography

62 acres of woodlands

Rental property in working class neighborhood

Tasks:
□Fixing clay field tile blowouts and plugged discharge lines.

□Cleaning drainage ditches
□Repairing culverts and abutments at field drives and cross-overs

□Removing old fence and tree lines
□Removing larger rocks that are always popping up in the field named "The Stone Pile"

□Clearing encroaching trees and brush on field edges

□Culling our forests as part of our forestry plan filed with the county for CAUV forestry property tax reduction

Several others I'm sure I'm missing.

Ultimately, I'd like to buy a new 13,000-15,000 pound machine, but that is a little ways down the road. I have looked at renting, but with the amount of work needing done, my schedule and transporting between properties, a month would be the bare minimum length of time that a rental would be feasible, even then, it would be tight.

I finally decided to buy a smaller, less expensive, used machine as a bridge. Barring a catastrophic collapse of the used machine market or major breakdown, I should at least break even, maybe "make money" if you were to deduct the "saved" rental fees.

Dealerships are kind of out of the question in my area since any limited used stuff they have, is out of my budget.

So, online we go.... WOW! What a mine field! This might be old hat to most, but it was new to me.

First: I looked on the book of faces marketplace. I actually started an account trying to be as anonymous as possible. What an experience!

I found one machine in "Florida". The FB listing had a link to a website with a phone number, as well as an address. (Beware of Shelby-Equipment. com aka: AMR Equipment Holdings). They "had" a 2016 Takeuchi 260 listed for $10-15k under market pricing. This should have been a red flag. (Hey, some people don't know what they have...right?) I looked at the address listed on Google Maps and it looked like a small construction or landscape company but it doesn't have a Google street view of the building. Also, if you look, there is no "Verified Google Business" listing on the construction lot, similar to the window company also seen in screen shot below it, showing on the map view. The construction comp is the property top center in the image below. I didn't think about that at the time.




I figured I'd call the number. It rang and while a series of beeps and tones were chiming, "Max" (probably in India) answered. LOL! My Spidey-Senses were triggered immediately, but figured I'd ask "Max" a few questions. He kept mixing up the model I was asking about and was generally unhelpful. He just wanted to assure me they would ship it anywhere in the US for .80/mile.

After I hung up, I was scrolling through "their" gallery of images water marked with "Shelby-equipment. com" when I noticed something...


Yes, they missed removing a blatant watermark (top right) of the real company in PA that has since sold the real unit. I called the real company and he confirmed they frequently get calls about scammers using their images. It was an interesting call.

I looked at a ton of listings. Some scams, some legit. I ended up with a Craigslist listing local to me. I called, set up a time to look at the machine. It was an early 2000's IHI 35j for $17k. Once there, the younger kid (late 20s?) pulled the machine out of the shop. He told me about the basement water proofing business his family owned and how they were getting into higher end, new home construction and they wanted nicer looking machines. He gave me the complete "story" about the machine. "They owned it for 20yrs, all service was done as scheduled, he had all the records at their other main office." Blah, blah, blah.

The machine had 3000 hrs. The boom, bucket and dipper pins and bushings are pretty tight and it has a PSM wedge, quick attached bucket and hydrulic thumb. Bottom rollers where noisy, and at least 3 need replaced. It tracked straight, high speed worked, house spun smoothly with minimal slop. It has an Isuzu diesel with some blow-by and smoke on start-up, but nothing crazy. The door is missing, bottom front glass, back glass and sun-roof glass is gone. It is UGLY! But, the stuff that is supposed to work...works. We agreed on a price slightly lower than asking, I gave him a $200 deposit (cash) and arranged to pick up the machine and bring the balance owed the next day.

Despite the looks of the IHI, I was pretty excited about being able to tackle some jobs on a relaxed timeline, compared to the time limit of a rental or not worrying about getting things done before a buddy needs their machine back.

So, that night I decided to watch some YT videos of mini excavators in action. Well, as I was scrolling through YT videos with IHI 35J models and guess what I saw? A vertical video from 2 yrs ago with a middle aged guy showcasing it's functionality. Hummm...it has the same yellow PSM bucket. Humm....that looks like a PSM hydrulic thumb. Hummm....I think that's the same machine! The next video was a horizontal video doing a similar demonstration posted 3 months ago. Although the video quality was terrible, I noticed a familiar "Keystone" sign hanging on a distant building in the background. Much like a vehicle inspection station would have in Pennsylvania.

Funny little fact... I was told by the kid I met when I viewed the machine that the "company" has owned the machine since new, remember, 20yrs? Also, he said they only work in the Cleveland market area. What is this thing doing in PA?

I searched the YouTubers user name and found a number. He is a legit surplus equipment dealer in PA, although primarily manufacturing equipment.

I called, he answered, and I asked about the excavator I saw in his video. He said "do you want to look at it?" I immediately said to myself, "WHAT did he just say?!" He said he "sold it to a buddy to do a few jobs and his buddy had it re-listed." I told him it was sitting in a shop in Cleveland. He sounded just as shocked as me and then said he would call his buddy and call me right back. I immediately thought, well there goes $200 bucks, this thing is probably stolen.

The guy called me back and said that his buddy had sold the machine to someone in Ohio and that was all he knew. I thanked him.

OK, now what? The kid had mentioned that his family owned the entire strip of buildings where we met. I went to the county's property search. I searched by the address he originally gave, where he was sitting and guess what? They didn't own that specific address. But going to the satellite map view, I saw they owned a different address a few doors down from the one given. That was the shop the machine was in. The other addresses in that strip were owned by those individual businesses occupying those buildings. Things were NOT jiving!

I called our Sheriff dept to see how to check if a piece of equipment was stolen. The dispatcher said that they use a the site Your Trusted Partner in Leading the Fraud Fight | National Insurance Crime Bureau There you can enter the serial number, make and model to check. She said the only other record of stolen, untitled piece of property, would be in the agency's paperwork that took the report. However, most enter that serial number into the site I linked above.

I then called my Sheriff deputy buddy and asked his opinion. He said he thought the kid sounded like he just wanted to sell an excavator and was a BSing salesman. He said enter the serial number, if it comes back clean, finish the transaction and leave with the machine. If the serial number has been ground off or comes back flagged in the NICB site, politely ask for the return of the deposit, and leave, but be ready to leave without my deposit. I agreed, getting into an argument that escalates into a self defense situation is probably not worth $200. Especially in Cuyahoga Co. Its much different than where I live.

The next day I hooked up to the trailer, picked up my cousin, and headed to see how things were going to go. As we were pulling up, there were a couple cops in front of the business

Yeah, I immediately thought that too.

Nope, they had an unrelated vehicle pulled over in the same parking lot where the kid was readying the machine to be loaded. He was totally un-phased by their presence. I told him I wanted to run the serial number. We looked at the aluminum data tag, but it was in rough shape and it was unreadable, it didn't appear altered by intentional means, it was old corrosion. He said he thought it was stamped into the machine. It was. The manufacturer stamps it at the base of the boom, left side as seated on machine. I entered it and it came back clean.

I paid the balance, we loaded it and headed home.






Yes, it hit every branch on the way down when it fell out of the UGLY tree, but I think I will be better off getting some use out of it without the pressure of time constraints. What I'm finding is that aftermarket rollers are nearly impossible to source. IHI OEM parts are expensive. The bottom rollers are about 330/ea through them. Aftermarket, if I can find them, are about 120/ea. I have one coming. The others, well, I have a lathe, boring bar and a welder.

I think they bought the machine, found out how much $ it was going to be to whip it into shape and decided to bail before getting in too deep. The rollers have bearings that are shot. Once the one aftermarket roller I ordered gets here, I will replace the worst one and see if I can give it some extra life with new sealed bearings until aftermarket parts get off the boat.





I can build up worn spots with weld and machine back to size at night or when it's crappy weather. Hopefully, aftermarket rollers will start arriving in stock somewhere. Until then, this will have limited movement so I don't ruin an already sketchy track.

What I did I learn?

Suspect everything listed on websites like Craigslist or marketplace as a scam or stolen

Use https://www.godaddy.com/offers/whoi...B1oUzK9tMYHiuSCf8rJCiPU3PhrSuW1AaAt-wEALw_wcB to see how long a website with equipment has been in existence. These scammers start, and shut them down pretty frequently.

Search any business names you get to see if you can find info. If it's legit, it shouldn't be hard.

Use Google Maps to verify a business address as well as street view to see if they actually exist. Sort of in the same vein, check county property records of the location they give you. You can usually get some useful info there.

Look for visual ques in any promotional videos or pictures. You at least know what kind of trees grow in your area. Stolen images usually cropped or altered, but the scammers might have missed a rightful owner's watermater or two.

If equipment is priced super cheap, it is likely a scam, the smart ones price it just below market value.

If there is not a serial number, run. When you get the ID enter the info into Your Trusted Partner in Leading the Fraud Fight | National Insurance Crime Bureau to check status.

Search Google for "Stolen XYZ machine" or "theft ring" in the area the equipment is located or associated with. I searched areas in PA as well as N.E. Ohio. I also added "forums" and "reward" to the search to see if someone posted somewhere.

Use an alternate search engine to Google. Carrot2.org is one I used.

Just be aware, if you're as nieve as I was a week and a half ago, you're going to be shocked by how conniving and deceitful people can be.


There is more to the story about the kid, but I'll leave that for another day.

Good luck in your future equipment search.

 

Let me know when you get ready to upgrade.

that’s the size machine I’m looking for.

 

OK, but you owe it to yourself to experience the social media sales floor!

 

Ummm.

thanks

I’ll live that one vicariously through you.

 

LOL!

 

Very informative post! As somebody who has been looking for a used compact tractor I can relate to many of the tips and tricks you mentioned. The market for used machinery is a cesspool and it can be extremely difficult to find a machine and not get burned. At the bare minimum you’ll have a lot of time invested into sorting through the noise.

In todays market a buyer almost has to have cash in hand, truck and trailer hooked up and the availability to drop everything. Also I’ve seen a lot of good deals come up and disappear only to be put up by another seller a few days later with much better pictures. Flippers. Did I mention now the machine now costs 4k more.

I have used property searches and google maps/road view to see where the picture of the tractor was taken. Given with landmarks like barns, ponds etc. Also bogus addresses are a dead giveaway but also somebody could be posting for a friend or relative. County auditors property searches are also a valuable resource.

I’ll probably remember something else later but thanks for the post I can relate. I hope the machine gives you years of service.

 

For your information I work on heavy equipment for a living. Buy the factory rollers and
be done. The cheaper aftermarket ones last no time. A bad roller can can cause excessive wear on the track rails. I understand saving money but in 6 months you will probably be replacing them again.

 

What fails on the cheap rollers? The bearings?

 

Yes. And the metal is inferior

 

No, not really...doesn't look bad at all...I used my neighbors Bobcat 331 miniX to dig a footer a couple years ago...now that thing was rough!!
It was formerly a rental.
Congrats on the successful purchase... that'll be handier than a shirt pocket!

 

Good luck Casper

 

I installed an aftermarket bottom roll on a tracked skidsteer,and it made it out the shop door and onto the trailer before coming apart not fun

 

If anyone is looking for a Bobcat 425, don't buy this one! He literally told me it had a house swing gear issue and an engine issue as well as a couple other things wrong the day I picked the IHI up. He said they were going to list it, but would either price it low accounting for repairs or, if they fixed it, price it at market price.





He also has a John Deere 260e (I think) listed. Who knows what's up with it.

Here is the Bobcat before he listed it.





You can catch part of the Skid Steer in the pic I took of a drop deck trailer that looked cool. The tires are probably be the only recognizable feature when comparing the image from his listing. I am starting to think he's a flipper.

 

I’d like to find an older 334 model.

In that 3.5-4 ton class.

let’s me still haul it with my dump trailer and F150.

does pretty much everything I want for personal use.

I’ve noticed my 773 I bought two years agofor like $24,000 can be had now for like $17,000.

 

If I remember correctly you have a decent size lathe, how about making your own?
Buy the stock cut and pay a little cash to some helper for some drilling, facing and whatever you are comfortable with letting them do.

 

I'm leaning that way, you wouldn't even need a big lathe for these. Apparently, this particular model has a shortage of rollers at the moment. I'm hearing 3 months lead time on shipping.


I could replicate the contour of the one aftermarket roller I recieved. Bore clearance for the shaft, counter bore for bearing seats. Drill and tap the ends of the shaft, cut a couple snap ring groves to retain bearings. I think I could reused the end supports off the existing roller assemblies. The question is what grade steel should I get? Im pretty sure these are forged as OEM. I'm leaning toward 4140.