Anyone concerned about liability for firewood sales? I use a worker a lot. If he got hurt and a lawyer got to him... hmmm. Also considered letting people borrowing or renting my trailer to haul wood. LLC... I hate paperwork and an LLC would require it! Thoughts? If you use an LLC do you think you are protected? Then what about insurance, might need some. Ugh.
Always cautious about where to look for legal advice...(wood forum) But; I'm wondering, if for peace of your mind, just "hire" your helper as a private contractor? Maybe that would remove and chance of liability on your part? I dunno. But a legal office would know.
Here is an article. Like me, lots of people sometimes hire non pro workers for work around the home. Bad: you have insurance, yes, but you hire a non pro worker and he gets injured and your insurance company denies coverage because isn't a pro. Ugh. Could I get sued by my lawn guy!?!?
First comes the paperwork. From there he gets to talking with all sorts of different characters. Before you know it the union moves in and you’re forced to pay him $75 an hour, full medical for life, and you’re contributing $2000 a month into his 401k. You can’t carry on anymore. You close up shop because it costs you money to work. On the last day of business he calls you greedy for extorting him all this time. You move to Morocco and live with a traveling Bedouin tribe, gathering sticks in the Atlas Mountains. A shell of a former man, you lay in your tent at night grateful nobody from the western world will look for you out there. In all seriousness though, being worried about your helper getting hurt and all the consequences that could crop up afterwards is a very legitimate concern. I agree with yooperdave and think a friendly chat with a lawyer can point you in the right direction.
I don't now, nor have I ever, sold firewood, however..... While working in my wood pile a few years ago a guy from the county zoning department pulled down the drive and ask to see my business license and tax number. I said I don't need one because I don't sell firewood, I heat 100% with it. He said I have to be selling wood because no individual has that much wood for their own use. I said I do and now it's time for you to leave my property. He left but not before explaining the consequences of selling wood without the proper documents and not collecting sales tax, to which I replied "whateeevvver! Three times that year and a couple of times the following year, some dude in a non-descript white car dropped by and tried, like a mad man, to talk me into selling him a large quanity of firewood. After that year I haven't seen them. I guess they either figured out I really don't sell wood or they found bigger fish to fry. If you are going to play the sell the firewood game check the rules of the game in your area before you play. And if you don't like their rules then play by your rules, just be ready for whatever fallout that may fall upon you!
Ralphie that is a def concern I had never considered. I am glad you didn't get tricked. Maybe I will remove the firewood for sale sign that I recently put up! The fact that stores sell bundles now (and collect sales tax) makes this much more likely. I could do FB ads but any authority can monitor that. Prior to now I just sold by word of mouth. Sheesh. Anyone ever got caught?
Not just sales tax but your income tax, your helpers income tax and whatever else they can dig up. If your guy says he works for you then workman's comp is due. That will cover the guy if he gets hurt, but make sure every safety thing is in order. LLC means he can sue for whatever the LLC owns but nothing else. They make it so damm complicated to live the American dream.
I do not. Cash only unless an established customer. Know the folks you work for and sell wood too. Cant imagine getting sued over firewood, but there's been weirder lawsuits. Getting sued because your firewood was to well seasoned...geez!
This may all be moot anyway. More number crunching tonight. Paying a worker isn't working very well. Even if I raise price. But if he got hurt and a lawyer got to him... that'd be bad news!
I believe it was more to do with the helper getting hurt. The helper could just move funny and tweak something then wammo you are on the hook.
Lot of smaller tree service companies go this route. Protects the tree service, but very few tree service “independent contractors” actually carry their own workman’s comp and insurance policy.
You had me clinging to your every word! I think we need to have story time with Eric Wanderweg more often! So true though!
Creating a LLC should be very inexpensive and take only a few minutes to do on-line. I've assisted many friends in Wisconsin with this process and it appears Louisiana is much the same. ($100.00 filing fee with the Secretary of State) Some states work through the Department of Financial Institutes too. Check it out on G--gle before you hire anyone to do this for you and save some $.
Absolutely!!! Get an LLC for peace of mind. Even if your worker is a great guy, if he get's hurt or tweaks his back, his motives may change if he sees a pay day. The last thing you want is a lawsuit forcing the sale or your home or other items. If you have employees (vs hiring contractors), you'll also have to look into workers comp. I also recommend hiring an attorney for a few hours to set it up. There's a lot more to it than paying the state fees. There's articles of organization, meeting minutes, setting up business banking accounts and preventing comingling of funds. Not doing these could nullify the LLC and they could easily pierce your corporate vail. I also recommend umbrella insurance.
Ralphie was drowsing off to sleep by his nice cozy fire when a man in a white car drove up and rang his doorbell. He asked "Sir, do you sell firewood?” Ralphie said, “I don't now, nor have I ever.” The man just looked around shaking his head and said “Just look at all these piles of wood, and such trees beyond them. If you just sold some firewood you could make some easy cash.” Ralphie said, “No. It’s not easy work. There are saws and mauls, and a lot of sweat involved in the cutting and hauling and splitting and stacking of wood.” The man said, “Have you not thought about all the cash you could make? My good man, make it easy for yourself! Get yourself a splitter! Buy some bigger saws, perhaps a Stihl 500i, a heavy trailer, and a dully diesel truck to pull it with and you would be in business!” Ralphie again said, “No. It would still be a lot of work, take a lot of time, and I would have to pay off all those tools too.” The man had a ready answer waiting, and said “It’s easy! Just hire the laborers to cut and split and deliver the wood. You wouldn’t have to lift a finger! With all that money you could buy a firewood processor, a log truck, and a warehouse to store the wood in. Ralphie just said “No.” He added "There's paperwork and insurance and taxes and risk that come with the hired hands." The man said “Isn’t there anything you would like to do if you were retired with all the time for yourself?” You know, you could even move to Morocco and live with a traveling Bedouin tribe, gathering sticks in the Atlas Mountains if you wanted to!” Ralphie smiled and said “Anything I want? Do you mean I could relax and drowse by a warm fire in a comfy easy chair?” And he closed the door on the man with the world of possibilities - a world which Ralphie had already conquered. Eric Wanderweg reminded me of an old story about a contented Mexican fisherman with a small fishing boat, which I adapted.
