This past week Bosch came out with their version of the "safe table saw" Here is a video of how it works. Previous to this Sawstop came out with a "safe table saw" and it is not a cheap date. But, as my wife says, what is the cost of a finger? Truly, an amazing technology. The Sawstop saw actually stops the blade. While the Bosch one uses air bag technology to drop the blade into the cabinet of the saw. I'm not sure if it stops the blade. So, yesterday while splitting some of rounds as I do on a nice evening. I got to thinking, when are we going to see that technology or similar technology come to chain saws? Stopping the chain on contact with your skin. I can't imagine how it would work. Just thought I would put that out there to contemplate and get reactions. I still think that a sharp saw is the safest saw. Be well.
Sawstop uses electric current to trigger. If you cut pressure treated lumber that is still fresh it will trip the sawstop. Advice to all of us, start working on ideas for a chainsaw. That's a patent you could retire on.
That's pretty cool tech. I like to say that your first piece of safety gear is between your shoulders, but there's always a risk of being distracted and something terrible happening. I know several people who have lost fingers from power tools. Some of those people you aren't surprised about, but a couple are.
I did not realize that green pressure treated would do that. A pretty expensive fix to reset the sawstop from what I understand. I have been buying my pressure treated kiln dried after treating. More expensive but nicer to work with.
i have set of a saw stop several times to demo them it sounds like a shot when it stops and the brake cartridge and blade are destroyed , but thats cheaper than hospitals and loss of fingers, the idea is great and i would have considered one if i had not got a powermatic 2000 a couple years before .
The Sawstop drops the blade below the table too, along with stopping it. When triggered, a cross-drilled aluminum block is driven by a heavy spring up into the teeth of the spinning blade, stopping it cold, while a latch is released that allows the arbor to drop a few inches. On our saws (I help run a student woodshop at a university) it's not very loud; there's just a clunk and you wonder for a moment where the blade went. Then maybe you notice a nick on a finger and ask for a Band-Aid. The cartridges cost around $70. The blade is frequently ruined too, but not always. It takes a few minutes to swap everything out and get it working again. Obviously the cost of an emergency room visit, lost work time or permanent disability will pay for an awful lot of cartridges and blades. The circuitry that triggers it isn't all that discerning; anything that's significantly conductive is likely to set it off. There's a bypass mode you can use to disable the safety feature in special circumstances like when cutting aluminum or damp wood.
Jon, I was not aware that there was a bypass for cutting damp material. Obviously, that sensor would need to adjusted if used with a chainsaw. We've all experienced the moisture getting all over the place cut a storm damage tree. Also, the cost for changing the cartridge does not seem that bad.
Makes me wonder how many millions of dollars are spent every year, trying to make equipment safer so that people are saved from their own stupidity. Yes, accidents happen, but most injuries are preventable simply by being careful. Be alert, be aware, and do not exceed either your capabilities or those of the machine you are using.
I've heard this kind of position before, and I think it's really misguided. It is equivalent to saying that anyone who misunderstands the way a piece of equipment works, fails to see a hazard, or has their attention momentarily diverted, deserves to be maimed. Despite having experienced plenty of frustration with cumbersome, poorly-designed safety features, to discount them wholesale is nuts.
Don't even get me started on the saw stop and the guy who invented it , and all the other safety crap they are coming up with , safety is a good thing , but for crying out loud they are treating us like children That's all I got ,I'm out
We looked into a saw stop when they came to my area about early-mid 2000's. It was sold to us as "it will pay for itself on workers' comp premium savings alone". We kinda bought into it until we checked with workers' comp. Not a big/quick enough return for us to switch over for the cost of the saw. Also, as with some other safety "advancements" the operator gets a little too lax and gets sloppy with operating things because they "can't get hurt" and gets hurt in other ways. I've had a table saw kick a board back so hard I was black and blue in my stomach before I even knew it kicked. I've also shot a 8" x 30"piece of particle board about 20 ft across my shop when the table saw bound up and kicked back (7 1/2 horse motor has some torque) but I respect that saw everytime I use it and always pay attention when running something through it. And on the cartridges for the saw stop. Its great that they are less than a $100 but my blades are about $200-350 depending on the size, that hurts the wallet/production if you screw one of them up because a drop of sweat or something drops as you are cutting. If I'm at a job and see a guy running a table saw with the 1. The guard on and/ or 2. wearing gloves I know I want to get out of there as quick as I can before he hurts me too because something bad is going to happen. YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID. But Darwin tries to weed out the bunch when he can.
I am NOT discounting safety features wholesale. I believe that there is a certain limit as to how "safe" you can make a machine before you start causing other problems due to the inherent complexity of the design. The inventor of the Sawstop, as I recall, apparently tried to force his product into production via legislation, and thankfully it failed. The government-mandated safety devices and equipment you see in use today are most likely a result of detailed studies that prove a reduction in injuries as a result of the implementation of said devices. There is also a substantial cost component of those studies, and I would bet that there's a lot of frustrated inventors running around out there, with products that will probably reduce injuries and save lives, and who will never see a dime from their efforts because it costs too much to implement. Do I believe in the use of chain brakes, seatbelts, riving knives, cutterhead guards, or even earplugs? Yes, of course, and I use them all. But don't force me to use them just because someone is trying to make an inherently dangerous machine idiot-proof. Let's use the tablesaw as an example. What percentage of tablesaw injuries are caused solely by equipment failure, totally out of the control of the operator? I'd bet less than one percent. Let's say you injure yourself on a saw because you slip. Why? You were not wearing appropriate shoes, the floor has a buildup of sawdust or a spot of wax, you weren't wearing safety glasses or using the push stick, you removed the guards and the riving knife, you were IN A HURRY, etc. Well, you're an idiot, don't blame the saw. But don't force ME to spend money on safety devices that complicate my work process, just because you were careless (and I mean 'you' in the generic sense of any random user). I am an adult, fully capable of deciding what's best for me. I spent an entire school year in 7th grade learning how to safely use a tablesaw, and to this day I am meticulous about my decision to use appropriate safety devices to prevent injury, and to evaluate my surroundings and my workspace to eliminate hazards. I am a professional engineer and a facilities manager and I take safety very seriously. I'd also like to touch on the part where you mention "misunderstanding the way a piece of equipment works". If I were to have one of my kids sit down and read a user's manual, or watch a YouTube video, about tablesaw operation, and then have them go out in the shop without any further instruction and start running the table saw, I guarantee I would be bringing them to the ER at some point. Most of these inherently dangerous devices we use require training and instruction to use safely. Not using that training and instruction places the blame firmly on the user after that point. As one of the other members wrote above - "you can't fix stupid". But you can help someone to be less stupid by teaching them the right way to do things.
I'm all for new technology like this, but I am also 100% against it being shoved on us. I feel the same way about helmet laws, seatbelt laws, airbag laws, and now tire pressure monitoring laws. I'd choose to wear a helmet on my motorcycle and put my seatbelt on every singe time anyway, but I don't think the government has any right to force that on us.
See, this is part of the thinking that I think is out of whack. I've been a professional woodworker since, oh, 1991 or so. Earlier in my career I saw a recently-hired apprentice injured by a table saw because he'd been pressed into doing a slightly dicey operation with about 45 seconds of training. He slipped up and a kickback took his hand for a ride into the blade, because his supervisor was an idiot. Now I work with college students, several dozen freshmen a year, most of whom have never used anything like the machines we have because high school wood shop programs have pretty much evaporated. We train the heck out of them, and they're not idiots either, but they don't all *get* it the first (or fifth) time we tell them, and they come to work in the shop at all hours, in all states of mind. We still have to keep them safe. I wasn't a fan of the idea of requiring SawStop technology as a matter of law, because I think government-granted monopolies are a terrible idea. There ought to be more products like the SawStop, to force the price down and make it more widely available on a greater variety of machines. Because the thing is, the SawStop is the best guard out there. It's not the least bit encumbering. It doesn't get in the way. People don't remove it or disable it, as they do with every other table saw guard I've seen. It just sits there quietly, out of the way, ready to do its job in a fraction of a second if needed. It costs more than it needs to, but otherwise it's freakin' great.
Jon, You are making my point better than I think I could have made it. The fact that Bosch is coming into the market with another blade stopping or lowering technology I think is excellent. It will drive the price down. As long as some "do good" judge wants to retain Sawstops monopoly thru judicial activism. The marketplace will seek to remedy the imbalance in price.
