Liner size and stove options..... unfixable?

I had a chimney inspector come out and it has been a disaster. Took forever to get me a quote, multiple confusing options, no clarity and poor service. So back to square one, but here is some of the stuff i need to figure out.

On the main floor there is a wood fireplace with a 13 x 13 flue with a cracked liner. They recommended going to a gas direct vent insert with 3" intake/out lines and a new chase liner. Pretty expensive, but i am planning on doing that before next season. They recommended differing options for a new chase pan which were all very expensive and not 100% sure it is needed.

On the floor below (basement.. its a split level built in 1978). There is an older wood stove not in great shape and a pipe that goes into the chimney block and chases up a different chase. So there are two vent caps above the house. However, the issue is that the chase for the wood stove is 8x8 (according to inspector) and there is no piping that will fit down that chase that is the appropriate code. (Steel piping with ceraminc insulation) They advised not to use the stove without the piping, but they also didn't inspect the condition of the clay liner with a camera in the stove chase, we only looked at the fireplace chase. They thought that the homebuilder built the second chimney chase just for a wood stove so there is limited flexibility.

So what are my options here? It seems like no woodstoves can use a smaller pipe (5" or below). If i get the clay liner inspected and it is deemed in good condition, use it or no? Can I run the pipe outside of the chimney? If the liner is cracked, am i hosed completely? Any thoughts welcome. .....

 

Take some photos so we can see what you see. Why not a wood insert in the first one you mentioned with a SS liner?

 

As far as the second flue goes, if it is 8" X 8" and has a clay liner, as it should and as you mention it did, that liner can be broken out of the chimney and discarded, and the chimney that is left should have more than enough room for a full 6" stainless steel, double wall, insulated chimney. That is exactly what I did with my old, tired masonry chimney, broke the liner out of it, removed it and put a DuraVent from the stove all the way up. No part of the original masonry chimney is used as a chimney and no hot flue gasses ever touch it, only the outside is used as a structural element to mount the new S.S. chimney through at the bottom.

Brian

 

Thanks for the replies. I got busy and forgot about this, but it is darn cold in here so I am working on this again. I think I am going to make an appt with a different chimney inspector and go from there. I will keep you guys updated... the old stove hopefully will work for a couple seasons but I got my eye on these Ideal Steel stoves someday. Too many things, too little cash...

 

8x8 flue? There's many stoves that use 8" or smaller pipe. Run a stainless steel liner up it, and connect it to the stove. Post up some pics of the stove/ insert. It's easy to do, I installed my own SS liner and insert into my fireplace.

There's plenty of less expensive options out there. Englander, drolet, etc.. also look for a used stove.

 

Here are some pics. No other labels that I could see...

 

I don't see any stove brand name on it. It's funny that the stove has some testing certificate from Beaverton OR, and of the verbiage is in French and English.

Edit, I looked up Omni test labs. It looks just like a testing place, not a manufacturer. OMNI-Test Laboratories, Inc.

 

Sorry to hijack, but I'm curious how you were able to support the Class A chimney inside your brick/masonry "chase". It sounds like with the clay liner out, you just sent up Class A inside the remaining opening, but doesn't it need to be supported/strapped every so often? I ask because I'm considering the same thing in the future, but in my case I'd be pulling out 7" class A and installing 6" (the 7" is fine, but it's pretty old has seen better days).

 

The entire masonry chimney was removed at the top of the second floor [floor]. The entire clay flue was removed from the chimney all the way to the base. Then the front of the cement blocks that make up the outside of the chimney were broken out until a DuraVent 6" (ID, ~8" OD) TEE could be dropped down about 3 feed into the existing masonry chimney shell, The thimble portion of the TEE may be resting on the cement chimney shell but what is actually holding it up is a horizontal mount sitting on the floor trusses of the second floor. The TEE and all the sections below it are clamped in place by the optional rings they sell to lock the sections together. The bottom of the new chimney extends about 10 feet down into the cellar so the chimney can be accessed, inspected and cleaned from the inside of the house.

There is also a second horizontal chimney mount sitting on the bottom of the roof trusses; this serves as an additional support but mostly as a fire- stop to block the inside of the chimney chase inside the house, as required but code and good sense.

It is an usual installation because it was something that was adapted into an older house rather than an all new installation. It meets code and is secure, just unusual that there is any cement block portion of the old chimney left. That too could have been removed but there was no real gain from the extra work IMO.
Brian

 

Okay, so an update on this. I had another company look at the wood stove and give an estimate. Masonry (stone) above roof has issues, several cracks, rust and loose stone. Fix, tuck point and new poured chase cap, new steel chimney vent, and sealer on chimney above roof line. Flue on stove is 8 3/4 outer dimension and 6 3/4 inner diameter which is also heavily coked with creosote. Their cost and rec was to break out the clay liner and replace with new insulated steel liner. Estimate also include replacing all the firebrick in the stove. There are only about 4 bricks in the whole stove.
Chimney exterior = $3600
Break out flue liner and replace with steel. Cost = $5000
So this quite the cost. Any thoughts on if I am getting robbed here? He indicated that the labor on breaking out the flue was $1500, so could I do that myself?

 

Can you?

 

Also, is that 6 3/4 the inner measurement for the clay flue liner? If so, you might be able to get a SS liner in there without busting out the clay but it would be very tight. You can install the liner without the wrapped insulation and then there are several options to pour an insulation slurry of vermiculite on the outside of the liner that then dries and is fireproof. First things first, get some cleaning rods and a brush and clean the chimney. Then get a 2' section of SS liner and make a pulling device (I cut up a 2x6 to make it round and put in the liner and put an eye bolt in the middle to tie a rope to for pulling. As long as there aren't any but offsets in the clay flue and no big turns, you might be able to pull it through. If so, you can then come up with a plan to pull the full length liner through.

Do what you can yourself. Start with the easy, move to the more difficult. Come here for advice as you break this project down to its individual parts.
Good luck.

 

Hey I was taking a quick look on the Internet here, says US Stove Co. not sure of a model but here’s a snapshot ...

 

Why not drop the semi flexible stainless chimney liner down and pour in insulation?

 

There is no way I would pay that. You can easily tuck point your chimney for less, or strange concept... Do it yourself. I rebuilt my chimney a few years ago from just under the roof up. It had severe spalling and a cracked cap. Took a few hours to knock it down and two weeks of part time work to rebuild. I used poured a new cap in place that has a copper drip edge so the water doesn't run down the face of the new chimney.

Drop in a stainless liner and call it a day. You can add vermiculite or similar after its in if you keep the clay flue in place.

Like Horkn said, lots of less expensive but still very capable stove options out there.... It's your money... Spend foolishly if you want, but this is an easy decision if you ask me.

 

Was the 8x8 flue cracked then? If I had those kind of quotes I wouldn't be spending that kind of money just to burn wood! Do you have your own woods? If you have to buy wood I might look into a pellet stove, and the venting is smaller so sending regular pellet vent up 6.75" is no problem. Otherwise I'd be tempted to see how the chimney works as is, if its not cracked. 6.75 square is 45.5 sq inches of area, 8 inch round pipe is 50 sq inches, so it may work better with 8" stoves perhaps? How big is your house and how well insulated?

 

Well I don’t want to spend this kind of money either! Just trying to see what my options are. I looked into the clay tile breaker rental and that seems like I could manage myself. The replacing of the concrete crown I have no experience or knowledge along wit any kind of masonry. Liner seems easy enough once the flue is widened. As far as the current liner, I don’t know if it is cracked. It is so caked with creosote you can’t see anything. The code is apparently must be replaced with steel liner so these chimney guys don’t seem interested in leaving as it. As far as wood, I have access to plenty of good free or cheap wood sources. This would be supplemental heat. It is a late 70 s split level that has been updated/renovated. Big area but over a wide footprint. The wood stove is in the lower level that has a bunch of windows at ground level with a walkout to the driveway with the whole wall in French doors so it gets stinking cold down there. Heat pump is the only heat source and our bill was $550 last month with this cold weather!!!

 

Yes, 6 3/4 is interior dimension of clay. I like your idea, I will update some progress if I start this project. Seems like several videos of people doing this themselves, just time consuming.

 

Don’t know. These chimney “experts” that want money don’t seem to think that’s an option. Is 1/4 inch of vermiculite an appropriate thickness? These guys wanted to put an inch of wrap insulation... I asked about Dura-liner as a zero clearance insulated option that might fit and they had never heard of it. Just get liners from a local manufacturer...

 

I can't answer the question on 1/4" clearance, sorry.
Neighbor dropped the semi flex down 3 stories to an add-on wood furnace in his basement, says his insurance company was happy.
This was done in a 1940's house with a flu running down an inside wall.

I'd drop the liner in it using the insulation that mixes with water (fills in gaps) leaving the existing clay liner in it.. and cap it any way you want.ie.,,couple bags of quick set concrete or some 10 gauge metal.

Disclaimer: I'm a pretty handy "do it yourselfer" without a bunch of disposable income and see most contractors as guys who like to drive nice trucks, financed by other homeowners.