Ideal Steel: How often to clean cat?

About how many months, days, or hours do you guys run between cat bath cleanings? Talking vinegar/water spray and tap water rinse. What ratio should I be using and how long to let it sit before rinse? And then how long before reinstalling into a warm stove? Plannning on pulling it before a relpad when burning down coals.

I've vaccumed/blown it out a few times, started burning 24/7 end of last January (20th or so) till mid April. And now for about a week this year.

Thinking I should be cleaning it about now? Still getting good temps 1000-1200 but not shooting up as fast as when it was new. More of a slow gradual climb when I close it at 550-600. And step down to final setting every 3 mins or so. Doesn't seem to be holding temp up after a full load burn like it used to when new. I would find it still in or close to active temps in the morning. Now its closer to 300-400. That could be due to different wood mix though I guess and different air settings compared to last year?

 

I'm sure you may know this but your comment about vacuum and blowing just makes me want to mention. No high pressure blowing, just the computer keyboard blow can stuff.

 

I actually just use the vacuum hose connected to the exhaust port to blow it out first. Then vacuum afterwards.

 

I've used a warm hair drier on my cat and not seen any negative effects. Are thinking a hair dryer is too much pressure? Whats your reasoning on that? I can see not using an air compressor like might be done for mechanical/automotive type parts cleaning.

Also, I think a lot of the timing between cleanings may have to do with the quality/moisture content of the wood you are putting through the stove. Just my theory, but I think much Northeast wood which is mainly oak and other high moisture content hardwood, takes a solid 2 years to fully dry, but it is still very burnable after a year and much of it makes it's way into a stove even prior to a year. When that happens, and the stove literally bakes the moisture out of the wood, I believe it creates oxidization on the metal surfaces and hence decreases the effectiveness of the cat.

I'm burning mainly 2+ year wood now, but after winter 2015 we had a VERY cold year and I used a lot of my 2016/17 supply, and that put me in the 1 year+ supply last season. I found a cleaning half way through the season was a good idea. The CAT engages and ignites more quickly, stays bright orange longer, and just burns better. Of course while I'm doing this I let the stove go out and give the screen in the Fireview a good cleaning and with the Absolute it's less of an issue. But making sure you have a clear airway to the CAT can't be a bad thing.

Did my first burn last night while watching the last game of the world series.

Steve

 

I find that the less seasoned the wood is, the more often you need the wash the cat.

If your not getting good hot/long burns, go ahead and clean it. But plan to dry your wood longer. If your on the 3 year plan, step up to 4.

 

I usually clean mine twice a season, sometimes three times if it is getting sluggish.

I do the vinegar and water thing; I used to soak it but now just rinse the combustor thoroughly in the sink, then spray it down well, from both sides, with vinegar and let it sit a few minutes (maybe 10). Then another good rinse (we have excellent water here, very soft so no mineral content to speak of) followed by a good, hard shaking to drive off as much of the water as possible. Then back into a warm stove (the stove is always going when it is cold out), and by the time the firebox is filled and engaged, I am quite sure all the water has been driven off so I just close the bypass as usual. Even if there is some residual water in the combustor, I cannot see how it could do any harm and it will NOT be there long in a 500- 800F stream of wood smoke.

Just my opinion and I certainly do not know but I do not really think you could over- clean a cat. I do not believe such a mild acid as vinegar will hurt them, so you could clean it once a week if desired. And certainly they can be under- cleaned; some people never clean a combustor and I believe they are missing out on a substantial amount of combustor performance and efficiency because of it.

BTW: cleaning a cat. usually helps it recover somewhat but it certainly will not recover a cat. with a lot of hours to like- new condition. They deteriorate with age and so I think a reasonable expectation is that having a cat. that is running at 50% as well as it did when new and cleaning it may return it to 60% or maybe even 75% but not 100% if there is much time on the cat.

Brian

 

I think a hair dryer would be fine as long as it is not too strong.

 

I lightly vacuum monthly and wash once a season on average. However, apparently I didn’t clean the PH cat at the end of the last burning season as I was so sure I had. It was not drafting very strongly this fall, but I kept attributing it to relatively warm weather. Tonight I pulled it and was very surprised to find it almost completely plugged. The pic below is after vacuuming! I think the summer moisture may have helped the ash cake on more solidly. This one is heading for a bath, and the other cat is in the stove now.

 

I must remind you Woodstock folks again about how "lucky" you are to have cats that can be removed without the need to also replace a one time use gasket. I would love to be able to refresh my cat right now but would have to order and wait for a 6$ gasket.

I really do see the advantage of your setup and think that cats need regular cleaning, service, and inspection more often than even the manufacturers would like to think.

 

Bingo. Real world is a lot different in most cases than lab testing.

 

In my own case, that was a major consideration in buying the I.S. in the first place. I know where there is a brand new Blaze King King for sale (and on the sales floor) for $3,000 and I know I could wiggle that down a bit. So it was close enough in price to an Ideal Steel that cost fell out of consideration. But the way Blaze King installs their cats., along with the price of their cats (~ 3 times what an I.S. cat cost) were MAJOR considerations. The I.S. was also available with a grate and ash pan which I consider a huge advantage. Plus the cat. is located right in the front / center of the stove, the hottest part of the firebox where it is easiest to light- off and keep lit with low, long burning fires.

The Blaze King's advantages were a much larger firebox, which would go a long way to offset the lack of an ash pan, and that slick temperature regulating draft damper. Plus Blaze King has a long reputation of being a high- quality product while the I.S. was brand new.

But the fact that the combustor can be gotten to, and at least vacuumed without the removal of a single fastener, and merely lifting the top plate that sits on a rope gasket was a huge advantage. Plus the cat itself just sits in a hole in the sled below it, again all that is needed to remove it is to simply pick it up.

I also agree with you about mfg's claims being a bit (or ridiculously) optimisting regarding lifespan as well as needing regular maintainance. All the mfg.'s that I know of downplay this. And on some level, one does not need to tinker with the cat almost ever, as long as the owner is willing to run a stove putting out smoke and creosote, along with 30% and more of the heat energy in the wood.

Brian

 

Some cats need cleaning more than others...

 

To be fair, the bk cats are easily accessible for vacuuming and inspection without using any tools. You just can't pull the cat into the sink for a rinse or out onto the back deck for a blow out. Also, you can't just swap back and forth between cats.

 

Yeah, I am not intimately familiar with any of the B.K. products, having never owned any. I did study that B.K.K. at the local stove shop to w/in an inch of its life though 'cause I was thinking about plunking down real cash- money and buying it. And I did a fair amount of research and believe it to be a fine, robust and excellent wood stove that I think I would be very happy to own and use. I had to make a choice, and I did not choose the B.K.K. but that is not because I thought it lousy or even only fair, the Ideal Steel simply held more attractions that were important to me. But I believe both the B.K.K. as well as the Regency 5100 are excellent wood stoves.

For that matter, I think there are many good to great wood stoves available. Many many people are very happy with Englander products, and at their price- point, they are probably one of the best values in wood stoves anywhere.

Just because I chose Brand X does not mean all the other brands are junk or even inferior. In fact, some may be superior and I may have made a mistake. ??

Brian

 

I've seen you mention the same stoves multiple times. Funny because I had the exact same ones on my radar, just never got to look at any in person. I went with the IS because I liked the look over the other 2.

And the cost to recover was lower being I'm on NG. To get a BK King ultra or the F5100 I was commited to nearly $4000, the rebuilt/refurb IS after adding our own artwork came in at $2200 shipped. And I was reassured from these forums that it would fit the bill nicely. And it does! I hadn't even taken in to account cat replacement costs and didn't realize the ease of removing and cleaning vs the others either.

Again to echo what BDF said, I'm not knocking as I have no experience with the others, but from someone who struggles with buyers remorse from time to time, this is one item that I have never had second thoughts about once I got it installed and heating!

 

No reason to choose, everybody should have one of each! I have an Englander nc30 in the shop that could easily be upgraded.

Back to cat cleaning. I would just blow out or vacuum it until you determined that even a visibly clean cat is underperforming. Then apply acid to deep clean.

 

Yep, once you narrow down the 'wants' and 'has to have' lists, there are only a few items left in contention. So we both probably ended up in about the same place, regarding stove choices.

For me, the cat. cost, location and ease of access were critical and one of the major reasons, perhaps the major reason, I chose the IS over the B.K.K. The Regency sort of fell out of competition a little earlier because while it looks to be an excellent stove, it is a new model that is extremely similar to the B.K.K., which has a proven track record. So really it came down to the B.K.K. and I.S. as the two choices.

I am also happy with my choice and do not have buyer's remorse. But I do consider other ways to do things and what other stoves have / do not have when running into some little problem or limitation of this one. Again, just doing a running comparison as I gain knowledge with use of this stove and thinking how it might compare with other stoves.

Another point to remember is that I was limited to a 6" thimble, and both the Blaze King King and Regency 5100 require an 8" smoke pipe. I am sure this would stop a lot of people from using those stoves on a 6" chimney but I would have just gone ahead, reducing the pipe size and using the stove I wanted. Just my own personal opinion but I cannot imagine any reason both of those stoves would not operate properly and safely on the smaller pipe other than the problem of spilling smoke out the door opening due to the smaller outlet but again, I would use a draft inducer which would overcome that limitation anyway. A 6" pipe with a blower in it will trump an 8" pipe being normally aspirated, at least at any temperatures it reaches here outside and any temperature I would ever operate any woodstove.

As far as price, yes, the I.S. was less expensive for me as well but that alone would not be enough to offset it if I found it the better choice for, say, 10 or 15 years of operation. The Blaze King would have cost me another $1,000 or so (~700 for the stove but then sales tax on top of that) but a much more important consideration for me was spare parts, especially combustors over those 10 or 15 years. When I bought the I.S., I was given a price of $125 for a new combustor (it has increased to $175 last time I asked) vs. ~$340 for a Blaze King King cat. Changing them out every two years or so and the cost difference really shows up in a decade. Other things seem to be quite a bit less expensive from Woodstock as well such as gaskets, door glass and general stove parts (I purchased an entire door azz'y so I can easily clean the glass and it was pretty reasonable for the I.S.).

Brian