Ideal Steel - Basement Install

I had an Ideal Steel installed in the spring and have been using it regularly since October. The stove runs great when burning, the issue is when I let the stove go out and the reverse draft begins (especially on humid days). My guess is the chimney is not quite high enough and the wind coming off the roof line is working its way down the chimney, through the stove then into house which stinks.


Chimney set up and a few pictures
Walk out basement Install, top vent with double wall pipe, pipe goes up 3 feet above stove, two 45-degree pieces then outside, 90-degree T clean out, then straight up the side of the house 20 feet with double wall stainless steel pipe. I do have to pre-heat chimney a bit on a cold startup to get the draft moving up first (otherwise will get smoke in house)


Any thoughts on eliminating or mitigating the reverse draft. My guess is to increase the chimney height another three feet, but not sure if this will solve the issue.

Thanks
Frank

 

Pictures

 

Will be watching this thread for learning purposes, sorry I dont have any useful information for you...

I imagine people will say add to the chimney due to the roof lines you have going on in the pics. I wonder if a damper above the stove would help when not in operation? Im just trying to learn and figure out the concepts myself..

I like your avatar pic. English?

 

I have similar set up. I get a down draft on occasion. Usually when it’s in the 40s and raining. I have a pipe damper and it helps but it won’t always stop the downdrafts. To stop the downdrafts all I have to do to s open a door or window. Make sure you don’t have anything else competing for your inside air like a gas water heater. Exhaust fans, I’ve seen furnaces without a fresh air supply that will cause a down draft. I have to make sure my wife isn’t running the dryer when I’m starting the stove cause it will cause a down draft big time.

 

I have a very similar setup with my Ideal Steel. My stove is in the daylight basement and the chimney setup is identical with 2, 45°s then exits out the wall to a T, and up 20'.

I will have to heat the chimney but only need to use a rolled up piece of newspaper held to the sled opening while my fire starts. I had an issue with smoke spillage my first year, but I installed and Outside Air supply and it seems to have helped with the negative air pressure issue most basement installs have, or it helped with mine at least.

I've never experienced a stink coming from my stove, even with its cold and just sitting...

I wonder if your chimney top, being even it appears with the roof edge there could be an issue with causing a downdraft, added with a basement negative pressure issue. Also, hard to tell from the chimney photo, but does the top of your chimney meet the 3, 2, 10 foot rule? Top of the chimney has to be 2 feet above any structure within ten feet, and at least 3 feet higher than it's roof penetration (which yours is)

 

Backwoods Savage, I think his issue is when he's not burning the stove. Any ideas for negative draft when the stove's out?

 

This ^ ^ ^
By the pics, need more chimney.
Basement installs can be tough though...might never totally eliminate the issue...

 

Thanks guys, appreciate it. The installer was not great and tried to convince me 16 feet would be high enough. After much "debate" told him I needed another four feet and a roof brace. But yeah, it appears I need another three foot section to fully meet the 3 feet above any roof at least 10 feet away.

No way to know, but do you think this will solve the cold stove reverse draft issue? I have been using an old towel to clog up the exterior pipe when not in use and pipe is cold.

Just want to make I dont need some other gadget to eliminate the issue. I have heard of a chimney fan inducer (or some such thing), or a piece you insert in the pipe above stove that heats the chimney. Seem like gadgets, but the stink can be bad.

Yes, English Setter. Briar was my first setter pointing a Woodcock in the picture (lovely dog).

Thanks again.
Frank

 

A straight up and out pipe setup may have eliminated your issue. Maybe!
Each 90 degree turn in your current setup is known to reduce your overall draft or vent effectiveness by roughly 2 feet each . 2X90's = a reduction in effective venting of 4 foot. Guessing this isn't helping!
The outdoor air kit sounds like a possible option for trouble shooting if you can make it work. Research the OAK air supply route closely if you decide to install one. It needs to be installed correctly to be safe and effective.
Good luck in your efforts!

 

The reverse draft and accompanying smell may not be eliminated no matter what...other than plugging the flue...a key damper might help with that some, but those typically only close off 80% of the flue area by design.
I get a bit of chimney smell in the basement from the wood furnace when the weather is just right (in the summer) but its not bad enough that its motivated me to do anything about it (I would just plug the chimney (better)...it would be easy since I had the pipe off for cleaning anyways...I had it capped off, but not tightly)

 

I'd start with more chimney and see what that does first. Then maybe research the outside air kit. I know the system is not a sealed system, but with the outside air kit, maybe with the stoves out, the reverse draft, and most of the smell will go back out through the outside air intake.... Not sure if that's true, but if the pressure difference can be changed it should help I think...

 

My sister's (walkout basement/raised ranch) oil burner chimney would backdraft when the wood stove was active and the wood stove ( not active) would back draft when the boiler was running. I sealed up her attic access hatch and that helped with the back-drafting and also helped keep that room a lot warmer in the Winter. She didn't have a backdrafting problem until I sealed up her basement's leaky frame sill pockets.

 

If it were me I would try a cable operated, top-mounted, flue damper first.

 

I don't think extending the chimney 3 feet will make much of a difference, its a pressure difference problem. You could plug the hole as Dennis said, or could also try introducing fresh air intake like NVhunter has done. (White pipe in his pic of post #5).

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is wood. Unseasoned wood, especially Oaks tend to leave that acidic creosote smell when the stove isn't in use. The basement appliances are drawing air through a chimney with creosote lined walls of the flue.

Out of curiosity what type of wood are you burning? How long is it seasoned. If its Oak and 1 year or less seasoned then that's a lot of your problem.

 

Yes to ^^^. This
Also chimney is only 20 feet high with 2 45’s and a 90 is this correct?

 

Now that the weather warmed up and stove is cold, I went out and purchased a small section of insulation and stuffed it up into the pipe at the T-cleanout. It actually works really well, no smell is migrating its way into the basement, even with warmer temperatures and higher humidity. As a next step the chimney needs to be increased another three feet.

To be clear - the total current height of the chimney from stove top to cap is 23 feet. 20 feet of outside pipe (five, 4 foot sections) and three feet of rise above stove. I agree the 90 and two 45's eliminates "approximately" 3 feet worth of chimney height.

Once I re-start the stove my current process is - heat up the inside of stove with a small handheld propane torch for a few minutes then light a piece of paper and heat up the exterior chimney. I then take another piece of paper and light inside the stove, just to be 100% sure the draft is going UP!! This seems to work very well for me.

Next step is to add a three foot section to get up to code. If this does not work, will investigate the outside air kit. For now, the fiberglass in the chimney pipe trick worked very well (no smell when stove is not in use).

Thanks again, really appreciate all the help. The installer was zero help.

Frank

 

I realize now that these won't work for your situation given that you have a metal flue.
Sorry about that.

 

Agreed. This problem occurs primarily because of the stack effect that occurs inside your house not what's going on outside. It is probably not related to wind or the height of your flue or nearby roof. In fact, most that report this problem notice it on still, cool humid days.
The stack effect creates an upward airflow inside your house that creates a relative low pressure area in your basement, basically a vacuum that sucks air down your flue or from elsewhere, whatever is easiest.
As you've discovered, obstructing the flue will stop the flow of air and the smell which is why I earlier recommended a damper (though the wrong type). An outside air kit may help some but most woodstoves are far from airtight and smelly air may still leak into the basement anyway.