In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

A thought on "Green Energy", worth the read!

Discussion in 'Everything Else (off topic)' started by WeldrDave, Feb 16, 2024.

  1. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    “Perspective”


    Whether you are a proponent of electric vehicles or not, this is very interesting information. An unusual and thought provoking article by Bruce Haedrich. (5th Generation War)



    When I saw the title of this lecture, nobody seemed to know what to expect. The only hint was a large aluminum block sitting on a sturdy table on the stage.

    When the crowd settled down, a scholarly-looking man walked out and put his hand on the shiny block, “Good evening,” he said, “I am here to introduce NMC532-X,” and he patted the block, “we call him NM for short,” and the man smiled proudly. “NM is a typical electric vehicle (EV) car battery in every way except one; we programmed him to send signals of the internal movements of his electrons when charging, discharging, and in several other conditions. We wanted to know what it feels like to be a battery. We don’t know how it happened, but NM began to talk after we downloaded the program.

    Despite this ability, we put him in a car for a year and then asked him if he’d like to do presentations about batteries. He readily agreed on the condition he could say whatever he wanted. We thought that was fine, and so, without further ado, I’ll turn the floor over to NM,” the man turned and walked off the stage.

    “Good evening,” NM said. He had a slightly affected accent, and when he spoke, he lit up in different colors. “That cheeky woman on the marquee was my idea,” he said. “Were she not there, along with ‘naked’ in the title, I’d likely be speaking to an empty auditorium! I also had them add ‘shocking’ because it’s a favorite word amongst us batteries.” He flashed a light blue color as he laughed.

    “Sorry,” NM giggled then continued, “three days ago, at the start of my last lecture, three people walked out. I suppose they were disappointed there would be no dancing girls. But here is what I noticed about them. One was wearing a battery-powered hearing aid, one tapped on his battery-powered cell phone as he left, and a third got into his car, which would not start without a battery. So, I’d like you to think about your day for a moment; how many batteries do you rely on?”

    He paused for a full minute which gave us time to count our batteries. Then he went on, “Now, it is not elementary to ask, ‘what is a battery?’ I think Tesla said it best when they called us Energy Storage Systems. That’s important. We do not make electricity – we store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid. Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, n’est-ce pas?”

    He flashed blue again. “Einstein’s formula, E=MC2, tells us it takes the same amount of energy to move a five-thousand-pound gasoline-driven automobile a mile as it does an electric one. The only question again is what produces the power? To reiterate, it does not come from the battery; the battery is only the storage device, like a gas tank in a car.”

    He lit up red when he said that, and I sensed he was smiling. Then he continued in blue and orange. “Mr. Elkay introduced me as NMC532. If I were the battery from your computer mouse, Elkay would introduce me as double-A, if from your cell phone as CR2032, and so on. We batteries all have the same name depending on our design. By the way, the ‘X’ in my name stands for ‘experimental.’

    There are two orders of batteries, rechargeable, and single use. The most common single-use batteries are A, AA, AAA, C, D. 9V, and lantern types. Those dry-cell species use zinc, manganese, lithium, silver oxide, or zinc and carbon to store electricity chemically. Please note they all contain toxic, heavy metals.

    Rechargeable batteries only differ in their internal materials, usually lithium-ion, nickel-metal oxide, and nickel-cadmium.

    The United States uses three billion of these two battery types a year, and most are not recycled; they end up in landfills. California is the only state which requires all batteries be recycled. If you throw your small, used batteries in the trash, here is what happens to them.

    All batteries are self-discharging. That means even when not in use, they leak tiny amounts of energy. You have likely ruined a flashlight or two from an old, ruptured battery. When a battery runs down and can no longer power a toy or light, you think of it as dead; well, it is not. It continues to leak small amounts of electricity. As the chemicals inside it run out, pressure builds inside the battery’s metal casing, and eventually, it cracks. The metals left inside then ooze out. The ooze in your ruined flashlight is toxic, and so is the ooze that will inevitably leak from every battery in a landfill. All batteries eventually rupture; it just takes rechargeable batteries longer to end up in the landfill.

    In addition to dry cell batteries, there are also wet cell ones used in automobiles, boats, and motorcycles. The good thing about those is, ninety percent of them are recycled. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how to recycle batteries like me or care to dispose of single-use ones properly.

    But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and windmills and solar panels. These three technologies share what we call environmentally destructive embedded costs.”

    NM got redder as he spoke. “Everything manufactured has two costs associated with it, embedded costs and operating costs. I will explain embedded costs using a can of baked beans as my subject.

    In this scenario, baked beans are on sale, so you jump in your car and head for the grocery store. Sure enough, there they are on the shelf for $1.75 a can. As you head to the checkout, you begin to think about the embedded costs in the can of beans.

    The first cost is the diesel fuel the farmer used to plow the field, till the ground, harvest the beans, and transport them to the food processor. Not only is his diesel fuel an embedded cost, so are the costs to build the tractors, combines, and trucks. In addition, the farmer might use a nitrogen fertilizer made from natural gas.

    Next is the energy costs of cooking the beans, heating the building, transporting the workers, and paying for the vast amounts of electricity used to run the plant. The steel can holding the beans is also an embedded cost. Making the steel can requires mining taconite, shipping it by boat, extracting the iron, placing it in a coal-fired blast furnace, and adding carbon. Then it’s back on another truck to take the beans to the grocery store. Finally, add in the cost of the gasoline for your car.

    But wait - can you guess one of the highest but rarely acknowledged embedded costs?” NM said, then gave us about thirty seconds to make our guesses. Then he flashed his lights and said, “It’s the depreciation on the 5000-pound car you used to transport one pound of canned beans!”

    NM took on a golden glow, and I thought he might have winked. He said, “But that can of beans is nothing compared to me! I am hundreds of times more complicated. My embedded costs not only come in the form of energy use; they come as environmental destruction, pollution, disease, child labor, and the inability to be recycled.”

    He paused, “I weigh one thousand pounds, and as you see, I am about the size of a travel trunk.” NM’s lights showed he was serious. “I contain twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside me are 6,831 individual lithium-ion cells.

    It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each auto battery like me, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just - one - battery.”

    He let that one sink in, then added, “I mentioned disease and child labor a moment ago. Here’s why. Sixty-eight percent of the world’s cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as part of the cost of driving an electric car?”

    NM’s red and orange light made it look like he was on fire. “Finally,” he said, “I’d like to leave you with these thoughts. California is building the largest battery in the world near San Francisco, and they intend to power it from solar panels and windmills. They claim this is the ultimate in being ‘green,’ but it is not! This construction project is creating an environmental disaster. Let me tell you why.

    The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium-diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.

    Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades. Sadly, both solar arrays and windmills kill birds, bats, sea life, and migratory insects.

    NM lights dimmed, and he quietly said, “There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions. I predict EVs and windmills will be abandoned once the embedded environmental costs of making and replacing them become apparent. I’m trying to do my part with these lectures.

    Thank you for your attention, good night, and good luck.” NM’s lights went out, and he was quiet, like a regular battery.

    I wonder how many people made it all the way to the end if this piece? And, how many will still buy their 1st EV or buy their 2nd and 3rd


    “If you think education is expensive, try the cost of ignorance.”
     
  2. Eggshooterist

    Eggshooterist

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    Thank you for posting this Dave.
     
  3. sirbuildalot

    sirbuildalot

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  4. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    :yes: There IS no arguing this! And, no where in this article does it mention "Left or Right" political views.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2024
  5. sirbuildalot

    sirbuildalot

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    The electric advocate elitist’s aren’t gonna like this
     
  6. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    I DON'T care! Truth hurts huh!
     
  7. Eggshooterist

    Eggshooterist

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    Not if you are being honest with yourself.
     
  8. sirbuildalot

    sirbuildalot

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    They’d give a damm if it was THEIR kid in that mine. Too many people have the “feels good”, can’t see it from my house attitude
     
  9. Jeffrey Svoboda

    Jeffrey Svoboda

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    That's right. As long as it isn't in their backyard they don't care.
     
  10. RCBS

    RCBS

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    Recently read about the Maunder Minimum. I don't think this is going to go how they are telling everyone it will go.
     
  11. Jeffrey Svoboda

    Jeffrey Svoboda

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    Its the same with gravel pits. All those fancy high dollar houses/people wanna use the gravel, sand, and stone that come from one to build their house and landscape their yard but they don't wanna have to see where the material comes from. It's just magic! Like meat coming from the grocery store.

    Same people that are on the green energy train, imo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2024
  12. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    As we're all reading and commenting on this article, (PLEASE) do not turn this into a political thing because we ALL know ;) the truth of where it's coming from. The reality is, it is happening but this education needs to be presented here.
     
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  13. sirbuildalot

    sirbuildalot

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    Solar and wind isn't the future. The government just hasn't accepted or admitted it yet. I think a combination of Hydrogen and Nuclear is where we'll see things going in the next 100 years. Solar and wind aren't reliable enough, needs to much upgrading and maintenance, and takes up too much space.

    The problem though is always going to be...not in my backyard.
     
  14. FarmerJ

    FarmerJ

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    Been telling this to people for 15 years. It still falls on deaf ears.

    IMG_1773.jpeg
     
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  15. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    People don't understand this; We have enough rivers and streams, AND the technology to make many small power plants, they have Very little to no Impact on Nature and can create SH!T TONS of electricity. I worked on a hydro project when I was Instructing at the USCG Academy and it was an underwater turbine that generated power through tidal currents. IT WORKED! We wanted to test the theory in the Hudson river, The Academy approached the state of New York at the time, we wanted a very small area north Of NYC to try it.
    We/the Academy was denied. :zip: I will go no further, but you can guess why. :hair:
     
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  16. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    By the way, all of you should "Cut and Paste" that article and send it to every one you know. Facebook, any where! Get this word out!!! Save it as well, re post in many places!!!
     
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  17. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    While I'm no fan of the way EV's are being pushed to "save the planet", I do hope they get the battery and charging issues sorted out at some point, as an electric motor is WAY more efficient at putting energy to the ground than an ICE is...but IMO it will be a long time yet until the ICE goes extinct...they are just a much better application for many things, especially in certain (most at this point?) parts of the country/world.
     
  18. RCBS

    RCBS

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    Efficiency is one aspect. Pllution is another. I am of the camp who believes that EVs generate up to twice the pollution that current ICE models do. I'm talking all encompassing, not just what comes out of the tailpipe. Batteries are dirty. Very dirty.
     
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  19. WeldrDave

    WeldrDave Military Outpost Moderator

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    I have been stationed at several military bases in my career, I "CAN'T" get into details, but I'll tell you this, The US Navy has batteries from WWII subs that they CAN'T get rid of. 250,000 TONs worth of more. Many sub bases "Buried" them and over the years they started leaking. I (Personally) know of 2 situations that are going on right now as we speak and it's kept REALLY on the down low. Batteries are FLAT nasty! Mother earth will rejuvenate the air by rain, condensation and other things. Once the lead core batteries leak, it takes MASSIVE clean up procedures to rectify the problem. I know this, I've seen it, it's going on as we type this.
     
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  20. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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