357 Magnum performance (handgun or rifle) on deer?

Curious if anyone here has used the 357 magnum to harvest deer, either handgun or rifle? Do they take a heart shot and walk it off? Dead right there? Laugh at you and walk away? What was your load, and how was the performance. I realize the 357 isn't a power house, but I also believe if you let the light in/let the air out, that things should die.

I have a load set up for my 357 Handi rifle that I'm thinking of using for 100 meter or less shots in a I'm hiding/rattling deer in situation. 158 grain Lee swc gas check bullet, basically a Keith style bullet, with 11 grains BlueDot, and seated long due to a long throat. Seeing buddy shot my chronograph, I'm left to swag based on reloading manuals.

Conservative figures put the combo in the 1,300 fps range, while the higher numbers reach ball park 1,470-1,490 fps. I'm guessing that these loads increase a fair amount by being in a rifle barrel as opposed to a revolver. I'm calling it 1,700 fps ball park, as it seemed to match up to a jbm trajectory chart pretty well.

My bullet mix was basically about 10 lbs dead soft lead, and about 1 lb wheel weight lead. On green straight grained poplar (no dirty knots) I ended up with 6" penetration, and peeled back on itself in a most spectacular fashion. In seasoned poplar, it went through about 8" and kept on trucking. So that's about what I'm dealing with here.

Any and all thoughts appreciated.

 

grandfather when he got older all he hunted wth.... his comment if I can see it I can bring it down safely with it.. kframe 8.25 inch barrel sorry cannot help with loads he was a gunsmith.. same thing he shot gophers with at 100 yards of hood of his old t bird.. different loads

 

Here's a few photos. The last pic shows how much further out I am compared to where the bullet would be in a standard load.

 

Yes that will do just fine. Also a bow hunter, if a arrow can kill it a center fire can. Look at a 30-30, lever gun not a sexy magnum right off the pages of a outdoor magazine. What in North America has put mor meat on the table than a 30-30 and core loks? I have a buddy in Maine that deer hunts with a Henery 357, got himself a nice 6 point this year. He doesn’t reload they are Remington green box 125, don’t remember the exact weight. That rifle will sling them. Go for it, can’t wait to hear what you come up with.

Your getting great penetration and mushrooming.

 

If you put that shot in the goodies inside 100 yards you should be fine. As long as you realize this is going to have a lot less energy downrage than, say, a .308...and don't try to reach out too far you should have no problems.

 

I have been kicking around the idea of a big horn armory in either a 500 s&w or a 454 casull. I like the idea of one ammo for both rifle and pistol that I pack.

 

Hunting Ethics aside, i would look for a bullet that fits the rifle a little better.
Have you tested groups with a standard oal?

I would also never guess at ballistic data. Loading that far out is almost certainly changing how even it burns and pressure.

I would also juice the load for Max pressure with a good stable powder.
Your thoughts of a rifle running harder(velocity) aren't off compared to a wheel gun.
Cast bullets do an excellent job of penetrating.

 

I killed a doe at 42 yards with a 6" barreled S&W 686 several years ago. Hit it at the base of the neck and dropped it. I used a Hornady 158 grain hollow point over a max charge of H110. I would use the combo again but haven't been shooting enough lately to feel comfortable hunting with the revolver. I was able to keep 9 of 10 shots on a paper plate at 50 yards then after a summer of practice.

 

Do you think a 357 magnum to be unethical? Did you have a bad experience? It's actually stepped out to what would be the 360 DW

I just use what bullets I have kicking around, although with the H&R having such a jump to the rifling I wouldn't mind some 180's or even heavier.
I load long whenever I can, I've never had a load get worse by being seated long. Read up on long chambers in 357 Handi rifles, it's a thing.

I'm not too far off the reservation with my load, it being stretched out, but also a little more sugar on top. BlueDot in any application I've ever used, burns pretty clean (for BlueDot) when it's pressured up. Absolutely gross at low pressure.

Do you find BlueDot not stable?

 

It's a known killer, ethics aside because of the "poplar ballistics jell"
I thought you were trying to justify.
It's judgement not so much caliber most times.


I have several Chambers rifle and pistol, that if "loaded long" assuming loading long is going past any Saami spec won't chamber.
It's actually pretty common. Just as common to have a sloppy loose chamber with lower quality weapons.

You also have to be careful of blue dot, and several other pistol powders and pressure spikes.
I know blue dot had said not to use lighter bullets due to dangerous pressure, in the 357 Wich is counter intuitive. They say use heavier bullets.
Messing with seating DOES indeed change pressure and velocity.

Comparing the oal to an entirely different cartridge design is borderline
It's like comparing different .30 Cal's and considering them equal if loaded the same length.

Not just the case was lengthened but a stronger web and specific powder, For the 360.

I also imagine that although the bullet "mix" or alloy with a gas check is shooting fine. There probably is not enough (sb) or antimony to actually harden it to show much brinell change.
If I were you I'd save the ww and keep it pure possibly ditch the gas check for the velocity you are seeking.

 

Deer are tough, but they aren't. They are pretty soft skinned, don't have a lot of fat to expand bullets, and their bone structure is relatively weak. They seem tough because they have an almost supernatural ability to run for long distances on basically no blood / oxygen. My dad shot a deer llast night with a 20G 2 3/4" slug, took out one lung and the major arteries connecting it to the heart, and it still ran 75 yards before piling up. It stopped spraying after 30 yards, so the heart was likely pumping air or not at all for the last 40.

Penetration isn't an issue on a deer, but you have to hit them right in the boiler room and get them to bleed A LOT or they'll run forever, find the thickest patch of woods possible, and lay down. So you have two options. 1 - go heavy...throw a brick at them (shotgun) or go fast and try to cause a lot of hydrostatic shock. Getting inside the cage isn't the problem, but once you're in there you need to do some damage.

 

I am so jealous that you have a Handi Rifle in .357.

I am torn whether to use my trusty NEF Ultra slugger .20ga, or try out my 686P next Monday. I have been witness to a shot dead where it stood doe, at about 45 yards with a 6" bbl. She never took the first step. Just fell over and twitched a bit. Shot was placed in the kill zone, but I was not present for the dressing/skinning for examination. I do not know what load or bullet was used, but they were hand loads, I'm sure of that. I have been directed to the gascheck hard cast bullets for deer & bear from my reading. Also have read about plenty that have killed with the 158gr bullets of various design.

I would love to have a single shot .357.

I agree with Lukem. It's all about energy transfer.

 

I double lunged and mature doe with my trusty 870 12G tonight and she ran every bit of 50 yards.

I never dropped one on the spot.

 

Nervous system, hydraulic shock wave is the bang flop. With the slug a high shoulder shot just below the back strap should do it.

 

I think they're a neat little no frills rifle. I don't know why I have a soft spot in my heart for them, I just do.

 

I've dropped several does and bucks right in their tracks work my 7mm rem mag. Even my 4pt I got this year wasn't a good shot by my standards, but I got enough lung and that's it for vitals, and it went 30 yards. I'd say most of my kills since I got my Ruger m77 mk2 in 1993 went either 0 yards, or under 30 yards. Never any more than that. I've hit hearts dead on, literally nothing left of the heart, and bucks will still make a leap or 3.

It's all shock and awe with the magnums, Imho. My dad's 300 win mag Browning BAR has done similar performances.

Now what's odd, is my buddy hunts with an AR15 in .450 with these Hornady rounds. This is his second year and he's taken a couple deer with it. The odd part comes in regarding the lack of expansion of the bullets in the deer. The exit holes are pretty much the same size as the entry hole. His 6 pt he got this year was a quartering shot. His bullet went through 2/3 of this deer, and practically no expansion. Same last year on a broadside shot.

What do you guys say?

 

I have found anything that hits the 2900+ fps or faster get the bang flop. Seems one of my go to's is a 6.5 GAP it throws a 127 LRX at 3222 fps. I have shot w moose all one shot bang flops. Closest was a 1800+ pound charging 55 inch bull, shot him at less than 5 yards, closing fast. Then shots at 243 and 321 bang flop. My hunting buddies all shoot big rounds and can hardly believe their eyes. Hydraulic shock ripples to the hind quarter.

That 450 even though its not expanding is just short of 1/2 inch. That will drain the blood quick and drop that blood pressure fast. Much like a wadcutter, or small caliber that has mushroomed. The 6.5 mm or .264 barely opens to 1/2 inch so as far as hole.

 

On the bright side, even if it didn't expand one bit, it's still a .45 cal hole. Any idea on the velocity? You'd think that bullet would peel back and cause more damage.

The slowest loading I've used on deer was a 9.3x62 mm, 286 grain bullet going 2,350 fps. Meat damage was very minimal and yet performance was great.

 

The 7mm is an awesome underrated round.
Imo the 450 is a blend of hydrostatic shock and big bore big hole penetration. People love it for hogs.
What's nice about the 7 or a slug or something like the 450 is the blood trail.
Most smaller like a 6.5 leave little blood. The 6.5s can get it done via hydro damage.
The expansion especially polymer tips has to do with bullet design and velocity.

There's a guy on (i think) big game hunting.net that has a thread on his long range elk kills. Dozens of impressive testaments the the 6mm.