Ideal Steel running too hot?

I’m on my 3rd season with the IS, and am quite pleased with it. I recently got my first IR thermometer, & am alarmed at what I’m finding. With a full load of mixed hardwoods, my STT (taken on the rear of the stove, near the flue) is 550. I have a very strong draft (30’ Class A Chimney Pipe that runs up through the center of my home) & sometimes cannot keep it any cooler. The stove air setting is on the 3rd small tick, and my stove pipe damper is fully closed. There are a few secondaries, but nothing major. I found the hottest part of my stove is on the very front, to the right of the cat probe. With a STT of 550, that hotspot is running around 670!

I tried allowing more secondaries, thinking it would cool the cat down, but had no luck. The Woodstock thermometer shows 680 as a threshold for STT. Is that the same threshold for this front hotspot? What type of temperatures do you all hit up there?

If that’s too hot, Should I not put full loads of wood in it? I obviously must be doing something wrong. I really do have a hard time keeping it below a 500 STT for the first two hours after I load it. I never thought that was an issue until I realized how hot the front gets. I engage the cat asap, and dial it back gradually over the ensuing minutes...but on strong draft days, it still gets hot.

I can use your wisdom, input, and experience.

 

Attached is also a photo of the firebox activity.

 

Hi pa. Great blue secondaries! I also am on my 3rd season with an IS. I also can get 670 and above around the cat probe knockout. I believe that's fine. IIRC, there have been posts about this and even WS has stated that those high temps there are OK, and due to the cat throwing major heat at that spot. I think other IS owners will confirm this.

 

Thank you hencha.

Any idea of what our cutoff temperature is there? Obviously we do not want to run it hot, or push the limits...but I was up past 2am baby-sitting this stove, as the front of it was approximately 700 degrees.

 

I have a Fireview, not a IS, but I don’t worry unless I see over 700 sustained. I’m sure others will chime in, but I think your stove is running perfectly.

 

The IS loves some dry hardwood. I don't think the temps are too bad. If you load her a little lighter she shouldn't get up so high. Once she is going, don't be afraid to turn her down even more

 

Yup your stove will always be hottest there. Do not worry your stove top thermometer says it's running fine! I have IS.

My STT said 650 this chilly morning.

 

I think you're fine. We tested the limits with the pre production stoves and ran them harder than that.
Btw nice color combo.

 

I was seeing temps like that as well from time to time. Just put a couple less logs and and stack them a little tighter. Having less air gap between the logs will allow less surface burning area equating to less off gassing all at once. But man it sure is nice to get that kind of heat when needed!! I also am splitting a little larger as well which keeps them burning a little more controlled

 

That reading is actually from the combustor rather than the stove top. The radiator is open front and rear so the heat from the combustor will highest on the front of the stove.

550F at the stove top is well w/in reasonable limits but just IMO, you should be able to throttle the stove further down from there if you wish. I ran into the same situation with my own I.S. when I put in a higher, S.S. insulated chimney- the stove did not run away but its lowest output was too high for me so I installed a flue damper just above the stove pipe collar on the stove. Closing that along with the draft really slowed the stove down and allowed me to again have control of its output. That will no doubt work for you as well; as you cannot shut down the draft on an I.S. ('closed' on the draft adjustment is not really closed because there is a minimum opening size in the draft place that cannot be closed) so the only real adjustment left is the draft.

Brian

 

Thank you for all of the input & kind words. You guys are very helpful & patient.

I did install a flu damper last season, and that seemed to help. But these results are with that fully closed, and the draft almost all the way closed. . In fact I always run the damper fully closed unless it is an exceptionally poor draft day (warm & rainy). When I spoke with the great folks at WoodStock a few months back, they suggested I try a barometric damper. If I can find one for a double wall pipe, I may play around with it. I like the heat, but am concerned that I cannot dial it back if need be.

You all have settled my mind a great deal though. So should I worry about the front temp at all, or just watch the cat and ST? If I should watch the front, What is too hot?

 

Watch cat and STT if you feel you need condor probe in hole get it!

 

We ran the PH and IS without any additional damper, but had troubles with the AS, so Woodstock installed a flue damper with a port on the pipe to measure the draft. Then they tried the barometric damper, too, based on the continued high draft.

The barometric damper has a couple of inherent issues: it takes manual intervention to starve air to a chimney fire; it sucks cold outside air into your house as it works.

A chimney fire should not be an issue with these stoves, but Woodstock made a cover plate to allow us to seal off the barometric damper, and to compare back and forth the differences with and without that damper. It was always sucking air in (always working), but it was installed after the flue damper (between the flue damper and chimney), so the flue damper had no effect on it.

The barometric damper did mellow out the burn. However, given the two issues and the ability to control the stove (now the PH) with just the flue damper, I have removed the barometric.

 

Sound fine to me. Mine goes to 625 or more for the first 2 hours also.
I've had mine to 750+ in that spot by cutting the air down to the third notch. That cat will get to 1500* on a good cat burn

 

Pic of the barometric installed:
Cleaning PH Horizontal Pipe W/O Removal

 

That is pretty warm (550 F) for the stove top on an I.S. with both the draft and stove pipe damper fully closed. It makes me suspect you may have a seal or two that is not quite sealing anymore, maybe on the door or perhaps on the ash box? The only other thing I can think of that would cause those temperatures with the stove so choked down would be either building lumber or really dry and very small split firewood being used as fuel.

As far as measuring temp. and making decisions from the top / front of the stove, I would recommend against that- you are reading a lot of the temp. from the combustor and it is just impossible to get any useful information from that point. It is common for combustors to reach 1,400F and beyond, so the steel just in front of it is going to be unusually hot and not represent the actual burn temp. at all. Better to read the stove top temp. in my opinion.

As others have said, barometric dampers are not really good when used on woodstoves for the reasons mentioned; they mix a lot of cool air into the chimney that you really want to be warmer, plus they draw cold air into the house to make up for the inside air going up the chimney.

Brian

 

Ok, good information on the barometric damper. Also, My gaskets were all just replaced & the stove was fully serviced.

I now understand that the front part is not necessarily something to base my burn off of. However, can that front steel get too hot. What if the front Steel reads 750 or 800? If my STT is still reasonable (say 650 or less), is the stove in danger?

 

You can certainly call or write to Woodstock and ask them- they are very good about getting back to people.

My own personal opinion is that no, 650F is not too hot. On steel or cast iron, I draw the line at about 850F or at the absolute outside, 900F because that is when steel begins to fluoresce (glow) a dull, dark red and that rapidly accelerates oxidation and the steel is quite weak at those temperatures, usually causing warping if going much higher. The steel radiator in an Ideal Steel runs far hotter than that but suffers accordingly; that is a sacrificial part though, unlike any part of the stove body.

Brian