Love my Woodstock. Having some questions about while in Cat Burn though

Alrighty all you well-seasoned ladies and gents, We are going on a few weeks of burning in our Woodstock now. Everything started out great initially - Stove would get nice and hot, I'd shut it down for the night and it would stay at a steady 350 all night until I woke up in the morning to a nice bed of coals waiting for more wood.

Earlier this week, I was woken up by one of the kids. When I got up, I noticed a very strong smell of smoke in the house. Started getting worried thinking that somehow, something happened to the Class A pipe. Crawled into the attic - No fire, no smoke smell. Outside everything looked fine too. After some sniffing around, it seemed to be coming from the lid of the stove that opens to the Cat chamber. I thought maybe it was just the gasket starting to leak, so I opened up the bypass and opened up the damper a bit and went to bed to figure it out the next day.

Since then, things seemed to have gotten progressively worse. 1. I can get the stove up to 600* STT(External thermometer), close the damper a bit then close the bypass. I get a little secondary burning for maybe less then a minute (And far less then I was when I first started burning) before it goes out. Which is fine, I know that is normal cat burn behavior. The issue is that temps start to drop somewhat quickly, I start to get the acrid smoke smell again and then it seems like the stove stops burning completely unless I open back up the bypass allow the air to get it hot again. I've resorted to just burning with the damper closed - Usually keeps the stove 300-400 degrees, but I am burning through a lot more wood and completely wasting the point of the stove's cat.

1. I KNOW that my wood isn't dry enough. Unfortunately, i don't have access to real seasoned wood right now. I have some very old, dry lumber in the barn that I have been using to try and get the fire hot enough to compensate a bit but I don't think it's working. Going to start looking for pallets of kiln dried wood, but haven't gotten that far yet. Could this be the entire problem?

2. Cat could be 8 years old for all I know. I didn't replace it. Figured since the stove didn't seem all that used when I got it, I would see if the cat would get us through the winter before replacing it. My current theory is that wet wood + old cat has gotten it gummed up a bit, which is why cat was working better then it does now when we first started lighting the stove up.

3. Could the top gasket be bad? We don't get a smoke smell until we engage the cat, and it doesn't start immediately - Usually once the stove has started to slow down, which makes me think the smoke isn't getting burnt or it doesn't have enough air flow and is forcing itself out.

It's odd because in the beginning, I swear I was getting good cat burns. I would look outside at the flue and see no smoke at all. I still don't see smoke if I get the stove really hot (STT 600* or so) then engage the cat. I haven't checked after the cat has been engaged for 20-30min though (Which is usually when the stove starts to really cool down)

Any help troubleshooting my issues here? I think it's all related to wetter wood, just looking for some confirmation/tips.

Also, should I be able to see the cat glowing on a PH?

 

Tough to diagnose from afar but it does sound like the wood is not dry enough is the underlying problem.

As to the smell in the house, that is just a by- product of the stove 'stalling' and not drafting and not really a problem in itself. Cure the cause and the smoke leakage will go away, almost certainly. Of course, nothing wrong with checking the gaskets on the stove and correcting anything that is not bearing on the opposite surface, is damaged, is miss- shapen, etc.

Long song and dance but generally, I have not found catalytic combustors to last more than a couple of years unless really burning hard and hot. Well worth buying a new one if you are unsure of the current ones' history, especially if it could be eight years old. My observation is that they are not changed often or soon enough so it is most likely an old cat. if you got the stove used.

But first open the top of the stove and take a look at the cat. to see if it is clogged and / or a bunch of ash and debris is sitting on top of it. If so, take the cat. out of the stove, clean it by vacuuming, then soak it in a 50% white vinegar / 50% water (clean water- tap water is OK if very soft, otherwise use distilled water) near boiling temps. for a half- hour, then flush thoroughly with clean water. Let it dry and try it again; the rejuvenates a lot of 'tired' combustors. And of course if it is clogged, well that right there is a problem on its own.

Lots of people have that stove (not me though) and will certainly chime in with experience and advice. Maybe a bad joke or two and possibly a little sideways sarcasm- additional 'no- cost' extras we often throw in.

Welcome to the forum and the very best of luck with that stove and wood burning!

Brian

 

Wood isn't dry enough, and your cat likely needs to be cleaned. Give the cat a vinegar bath and I bet you will see a huge difference immediately.

 

In my days with less than ideal wood I was vacuuming the cat quite a bit more frequently. And then every so often the vinegar.

 

Thanks for the info everyome! Definitely confirmed my suspicions. Found a guy that *says* his firewood is seasoned for two years. Hoping to buy a moisture meter after payday then going to test some local wood dealers and get some better wood. Current supplier only charges me $40 a truckload, but it's frustrating that it's not seasoned and it just doesn't seem worth it. I think the plan for the future is to buy his wood and start stacking it for seasoning (to supplement my own wood gathering) and then find someone selling actual seasoned wood until I can start using my own.

Definitely going to get an order in for a new cat. They are sold out right now, but might as well get in line.

 

Try the vinegar bath first, you might be surprised at how well it works.

 

You might consider looking for some bio bricks in your area to get by with until you get some dry wood. They give good heat and won’t plug your cat at least, although I prefer cordwood. They’re a little pricey, but so is another cat and if you get a new one it won’t last long with green wood.

 

Do you have a way to physically check inside the chimney and stove pipe?
I dont want to sound the alarms but this sounds like the times I have dealt with plugged chimneys. Hopefully not the issue but it is probably worth checking out asap.

 

I'd clean the cat as it's been recommended. Also check the gaskets around the cat and baffle. My fireview's baffle gasket went 2 years after replacing. The stove cement around the baffle gasket was all cracked and broken.

How's the door gasket?

 

Going to try this for sure. Figured that since the cats seem to be on back order anyway, I might as well clean it while I wait.

I could check from the roof. Thing is, I just installed all of the flue only about a month ago. It's brand new Class A Double wall pretty much all of the way down to the stove, except for a small section of single wall that connects to the stove. I appreciate the concern, but I am really thinking it's just the quality of the wood that's killing me.

As in, burning bio bricks alone or with the wood I have to try and help generate enough heat to overcome at least some of the moisture?

I am hoping I found a guy with 2 year seasoned wood for 190/cord delivered. We will see though. I really want to get a moisture meter to test it before I spend money on the wood.

 

I would try burning them alone if you can’t get dry wood. Any wet wood in the firebox will give you problems. If you have room on your hearth you can dry some out as you burn bricks. That way you can mix wood in on occasion as it dries. There are a couple threads around here and I think a PH owner may have started one. Sorry, I’ve read so many older posts but a search would turn them up. General consensus seemed to be that some of them burn very well and last a long time. You regulate heat output by the number of bricks in the load.
Just a thought.

 

Gotcha. I will look into those. If they don't get bad burn times, it might be worth it for now.

I do usually put some wood around the stove (not touching! About 6in clearance and constantly checking to make sure its not getting too hot) in order to dry them out, but I don't know that it helps all that much. It's be nice to build my own kiln, but I think that might be a little overkill

I will do some looking around on here for that thread.

Thanks!

 

I’ve burned a few experimentally in my Fireview and I’m amazed at the long burn time. But around here they’re fairly expensive so I was mainly interested just in case I do need them in the future I know what to buy. For example, I wasn’t impressed with the ones from TSC but all the others I tried were great, just different sizes from 2-6 lbs each.

If your wood is very wet it’ll take a few days at least by the stove to render it burn able. I always do it out of habit when I bring wood in from outside. Anything that feels a little heavy or a little wet gets preheated. If you get your stove cranking with a load of bricks you’ll dry some wood

 

Sorry for the confusion. I do not have a damper in the flue. I mean the damper on the stove itself (Woodstock manual calls it a damper, which is why I used that term). Basically the air control lever on the back of the stove. Manual says to close it to half before engaging the cat, then depending on the heat output you want, to adjust it further from there. I knew from reading here that I didn't need to get it that hot before engaging the cat, but if I engage it at 250-300, temperature starts to fall, not rise. I blame the quality of the wood for that at this point though.

Good to know. I didn't know if I should soak it or not because I have no idea when it was last cleaned being that I bought the stove used. Figured I would start with a soak, then do bi-weekly cleaning with a spray bottle?

Yeah, I have been reading through the wood pile sections of the forums and have read about the dishonest wood dealers. It makes sense what you are saying. At this point though, I don't have many options. I didn't even own this house 3 years ago, so prepping a proper wood pile wasn't possible. I'm just hoping to get a moisture meter, then testing the "seasoned" wood before buying it and trying to get the driest I can. Hopefully two years from now I will be burning from my own stores.

 

paintblljnkie .. You are not the first to get a stove and not have proper fuel for it. At some point some one should make a resource on how to make it thru your first winter with sub par fuel. Oh if i have not welcomed you before welcome to the FHC!

What type of wood do you have in that area? Anything dead standing or ASH?
In my experience a woodstove does not care if when loaded with 30 lbs of fuel if 15 lbs are wetter and 15 lbs are drier. So mixing good with bad might help!
YES get a Moisture meter NOW, you might not need it in 2 years but you need some idea of how wet your fuel is.
Do you have access to some of those compressed saw dust bricks? They are very dry moisture content and might help in mixing your load as stated above!

I own a Woodstock Stove and have found them to be fantastic and great heaters! The Catalyst in my experience gives you more heat and burn half the amount of wood. That being said the downside of a CAT stove is that for the CAT to perform its designed function the wood must be dry and the fire hot. In short no one has figured out how to burn water and moisture cools the fire and 'stalls' the CAT.

I am sure others more knowledgeable than I will come up with ideas. Yes check moisture on any wood you may purchase. Most regular sellers will not have dry wood, does your area have any kiln dried fire wood dealers?

Good luck

 

Speaking of soaking a PH cat...I picked up a stainless asparagus steamer at a tag sale and soak one half then flip it to the other half. Uses less distilled and vinegar.

 

You do not have to clean a combustor twice a week or nearly that often. You should be able to got several months between cleanings, at least. If, under any conditions and in any stove, a combustor should show signs of being dirty in less than a week, the fuel must be awful and cleaning the cat. in not going to make any difference in that case; you would be better served to just leave the bypass open if you are going to continue to use the stove.

As to the compressed wood blocks, they can help you out and you can mix them with firewood that is not dry enough and make a reasonable load of fuel. Think of it this way: if well- seasoned wood is no more than 20% moisture, and the blocks are 6% to 8% moisture, them mixing the two will basically make the load of fuel somewhere in- between. So if given 30% water in your splits, mixing 50/50 with sawdust blocks will still get the whole load in the firebox below 20% total moisture and that will burn OK. It is a decent way to use some firewood that is not ready to burn and yet burn it anyway without making an incredible mess. And of course you can always burn the compressed blocks alone.

Best of luck though you should be fine- wood burning is a learned skill and all of us have had to, and most still are, learning either the basic points or the finer points, all the time. Besides, different stoves will introduce even a well- versed wood burner to a new learning curve.

Brian

 

Might want to verify with Woodstock that operating the stove with the bypass open for long durations is allowable. My BK cat stove is not designed for this method and has been said to likely cause damage. Not stirring the soup BDF. Or arguing. Just figured its worth verifying with Woodstock! Actually I am curious..