Englander 30-NC Heating From Finished Basement

Hey Guys,

Long time lurker first time posting from Northeast PA Waymart area. I have an Englander 30-NC installed in my basement which is finished besides the drop ceiling. I am looking for input on the best way to move heat upstairs before I start the ceiling. Should I remove the insulation between the floor joists and use a few vented drop ceiling tiles so heat can rise between the upstairs floor and drop ceiling? Should I install floor registers (fusible link > 10ft from stove)? Keep insulation and install registers? Total SF to heat is approx. 2,000 including basement(walkout ranch). I attached my house layout which will give you a good idea of what I'm trying to achieve. Once the basement is finished it will be used frequently. I'm also concerned about the upstairs floor being cold if I'm not running the basement stove for a while but I guess I can always replace the vented block ceiling tiles with regular ones if the stove won't be in use.

Notes: ZC Lennox Montecito installed upstairs handled 75% of the heating for the last 6 years and I will probably still run it from time to time. House was built by my father and I 6 years ago from the ground up. Insulation and windows are good.

I appreciate all the great information this site has provided me over the years. I will try to post some pictures along the way. Sorry for the long fist post.

 

Welcome aboard DaveD84

Is this the first year with the wood stove? If not, see how it performs before you start chopping holes in the floors.

I like your idea about using vents with fusible links in them. This may satisfy codes/insurance aspects if you go that way.

What is the house being heated with now? How well did the fireplace heat the house and how was the heat from it distributed?

With the floor vents in the bedrooms, I'm thinking it may get too warm for sleeping....I see you're kinda limited on placement of them though.

 

Welcome DaveD84! Nice to see you decided to join. You'll get great advice here. I'm looking forward to hearing what the more experienced members here have to say about your situation.

 

Well, as they say, there's only one way to find out.

My advice would be, if you know you want a wood stove in the basement regardless of how warm it will/won't be upstairs, don't do anything until you KNOW you need to do something. I'd start by installing the stove and just see how it goes. If the basement is hot and the upstairs is cold, try something to help move some heat. Removing the insulation would be a big help, but you will sacrifice sound deadening between the floors. Then maybe add some vents if that's not enough. In other words, don't try to solve a problem you don't have yet.

I heated from the basement for 8 years. I ended up removing the insulation, venting the drop ceiling, and installing one vent with a duct fan attached as far away from my stairs as I could get it pushing cold air into the basement in to get the whole upstairs comfortable without the basement being stifling hot. I've heard of others on the forum doing nothing and having good results. It could be as simple as a box fan blowing cold air downstairs (remember moving cold air is always going to be easier than moving hot air)...or it could be as big of a PITA as what I had to do.

Best of luck and feel free to ask all the questions you want.

 

Heat will probably go up the stairs.
A louvered or dutch door at the top of the stairs if it needs to remain shut.
I would insulate the basement from the garage well if it is being used as a garage.
Beyond that - heat rises and the floor above the stove might be warmer if there was no insulation there.
I wouldn't be cutting holes before testing for need.
Warm air might rise spilling off the ceiling and up the stairway and cold air may fall traveling down the stairs.

 

I don’t have a garage but otherwise my layout is similar. We like the bedrooms cooler and they are just right with the insulated floors. When I need a little more heat upstairs I find a fan on the floor near the stairs pointing towards the stove gets the circulation going better than the ceiling fan I have over the stairs. The side of my stairway is enclosed so you should be able to get it going easier. This way when it gets too hot in the stove/family room we just move up to the living room and it’s just right.
This morning with an overnight burn, it got down to 25 outside and it was 76 in the stove room, 71 living room, 65 bedrooms. You might need your insert on real cold windy days but otherwise you should be good.
Btw, I have almost 2100 sq ft total. House built in the 70’s and insulated a little better than average.

 

Thanks for the replies!

Currently the insert upstairs heats the house pretty well until it gets into the low teens. I have a small box fan on the floor in the master doorway blowing towards the insert. The house has electric baseboard that I supplement with.

The stove in the basement was installed a few years ago but has only been used when working on the basement in the winter. Probably only put a cord through it. When in use some heat does rise up the basement stairs but not as much as I thought. I think mainly because the area above the stairs is a high ceiling, same height as first floor ceiling. Its not framed down at an angle to match the steps (best I can describe). I purposely oversized the stove down there with the intentions of it being the primary heat source eventually. I know it may get overly warm down there but I'm OK with that. There's no other heat source in the basement. The wall in the basement separating the finished part from the workshop is insulated. I will definitely be leaving the basement door open.

I guess the biggest thing I'm struggling with is whether or not to remove the insulation in between the floor joists before I put the drop ceiling in. If I do I'll use it as additional insulation in the attic. I just don't want to be pulling ceiling tiles out down the road to take the insulation out. But as I like to say "We do it nice because we do it twice" haha

 

Also, a boxed in beam runs through the center of the finished area in the basement which I think restricts the heat flow across the ceiling from the stove to the stairs. I'll try to post some pictures up this weekend to paint a better picture.

 

As others have said, removing the insulation will let the upstairs crowd kinda know whats going on with the downstairs crowd....especially in the workshop. Again, only myself, I wouldn't have it in there to begin with but then I'm sure your house is much nicer to this shack!

 

I would keep the insulation on the workshop side for sure. Not looking to heat the shop just maybe occasionally opening the double doors separating the two spaces to warm it a bit when I'm working on something down there.

 

My sister has a raised ranch with a similar layout but the wood stove is under the kitchen. It works rather well. No insulation between living space though.
She also had the garage under turned into a bedroom and second kitchen.
You might find heating that workspace helps heat the upstairs if there's no car parked in there and the garage door is insulated and tight.

 

I struggle with a big disparity in floor temperatures in my split-level. Stove placement at the far wall in the basement is not ideal, but it's where the chimney was built, so...

I have farted around with fans blowing in all directions, and nothing mattered in my house. Just leaving it alone seems to work the best. I do have the benefit of two staircases entering the basement from the second level, which I think gets the circulation going. Bedrooms are the farthest thing away from the stove (upstairs and down a long hall), but I don't mind chilly sleeping quarters. I just wish the rooms above the stove were warmer. It can be 78 in the stove room, but only 65 in the room directly above it. Drywall ceiling, but no insulation.

 

My uncle in VT, has a very similar setup. It really depends on what your tolerance to temperature changes are. He heats with a mama bear Fisher. With no other heat master bedroom will be cooler.

Welcome to the FHC!

 

I finally got some pictures. The first picture is looking at the stove from bottom of the steps. Steps are on my left. You can see the beam in this picture which I think slows the hot air from making it to the steps. The second picture is of the steps themselves. It's pretty open to the upstairs. The third picture is of the high ceiling above the steps. I think a lot of the heat just sits up there before making it through the upstairs doorway. Right now I'm leaning towards pulling the insulation in the ceiling before I put the drop ceiling in and framing down the area over the steps. Eventually I'd like to put a convection deck on the stove like I've seen on here. Floor registers can be considered down the road if need be. What do you guys think? Any other thoughts/ideas?

Thanks!

 

The tops of my stairwells are at least twice as wide as yours (because they change direction halfway down), and at least as tall. There is plenty of warm air there...you're right. I would look at this as an air return, rather than supply. With floor registers and no insulation, it may be possible to get your circulation going this way (cold air down the stairs, warm air up the registers). I say "may" because a house will just do what it's going to do...and what seems obvious - in my experience - doesn't always happen. What is going to happen, is that cold air will sink, and warm air will rise. That I can guarantee! Oh, unless there's an inversion...

 

Very true statement. Thanks for the input. Sounds like this just may be a matter of some experimentation to find what works best. Need some cold weather now, 60 degrees here today. Haven't had a fire in the insert upstairs all week either. Just let the heat run a few times overnight.

 

How is that NC30 working out for you DaveD84? I have been kicking around picking one up. My Osburn 2200 seems to be struggling to keep my house warm. I too have it installed in my basement. I am only heating 215 sf of the basement though. I'm trying some different fan orientations before I decide I need a bigger stove though. My staircase is pretty open and goes to a 1600 sf double wide that sits on a poured foundation. The basement has drop ceiling. To try to force heat up the stairs I close the doors to the 3 other rooms in the basement.

 

Marvin is your concrete insulated in your basement? It's been my experience that heating concrete takes an amazing amount of BTUs.

 

That's a great question. Are you talking about the walls or the floor? I know the floor isnt insulated but I'm not sure about the walls. I'll have to ask my folks...

 

Both really, concrete had r value of 1..