I'm taking a co-worker gun shopping next week. He's never bought a gun before. He's looking for a home defense shotgun. One of the requirements is that his wife (with proper training) be able to handle it. She's about 115 lbs +/-... Not sure if a 12G would be too much and should be looking at a 20? Pump vs semi? Semi might be easier to operate but pump more reliable. Budget is large, if needed, but this gun won't be shot much so overkill is a waste of $. Thoughts?
Moss berg 500 pump type cheap reliable... no real kick with right shells... don't think she need double 00 rounds.... a bird shot will do..
20ga will definitely get the job done, but some of the lighter ones kick as bad or worse than a 12ga. Many ammo manufacturers make reduced recoil rounds for 12ga. Hard to beat a pump from a reliable manufacturer. Magpul and houge offer reduced length of pull stocks for mossberg and remington. As for birdshot vs buckshot, at close range birdshot can be nasty. However buckshot #1 OR #4 is nasty at more realistic distances.
If its job is defense, go pump. Don't rely on an autoloader...especially with reduced recoil loads. There are a few autos that will run reliably with them, but you are talking big $. Like benelli SBE2 is well over a grand, and its got a long azz barrel. You want a short barrel for indoor use, not a skeet bbl. I rock a 21" (iirc) on my 870. For recoil reduction, I highly recommend a limbsaver recoil pad. Great product for around $30. It will still kick, but its much softer. The Mossberg fans seem to love their 590a1 models. I'm a big green guy, so I've never handled one. The rem 870 police version comes with an extended mag tube FWIW. If bling is their thing, look into a marine model (stainless). If its really not going to be used much, get a moss 500, or a rem 870, tube extension (if wanted), a good pad, and some ammo. I run #4 turkey loads since my neighbors are literally about 10 feet away thru the wall. 00 would be thru my house, and thru theirs too. And I'll mention this: Indiana allows short barreled shotguns...with the appropriate $200 tax stamp of course. If they have stupid budget and want to spend it.....heres your chance As far as the wife training with it goes, train her on light skeet loads. There's no need to train with 00 buck if she cant handle it and wants to quit after 3 shots. When the time comes (hopefully never) and she HAS to pull the trigger with 00 buck in it, she wont feel the recoil due to being all hopped up on adrenaline.
I like my 870 but wish it had a tang safety like the Mossberg. I don't think he wants to wait a year for the ATF paperwork for a SBS ....But that would be fun. A DP12 would would also be fun but I don't see that happening either.
What's the Stihl part # for the "recoil" handle on the forend? 12 & 20 ga furniture is not universal.
I'd recommend an AR for home defense over a shotgun. Especially if you have neighbors or kids behind your walls. I know it flies in the face of what we have learned for home defense but do a little research and see what you think.
An Ar inside a home - nope sorry wrong item, too fiddley, When dealing with base level familiarization KISS applies. ( Keep It Simple Stupid) No time to fumble around trying to stick a mag back in cause ya hit the wrong lever and dropped it on your toe or acquire sights plus that little 60+ grain goes right through walls like a hot knife through butter. Engagement inside a home is going to be at less than 20 ft. Collateral damage to the neighbors is not acceptable. 12/20 gauge doesn't matter recoil wise likely never tell much difference, most inexpensive pump guns are on the same chassis weather 12 or 20. 7/8 or 1 oz out of either is going to be a rather terminal experience for the recipient of same. Home defense loads are made to open up a bit quicker than say a trap load but the energy of the pellets contained there in is the same given the same starting velocity. Either way staring down the business end of a .615 or .729 dia bore tends to give a bit of pause to most people, as well as the rather distinctive cycling of the pump. At 20 ft or less that hole in the intended target is going to be around 2" and it isn't going to be a clean pass through either unlike that 60 grain will be from an AR. A full load hit from either 12/20 would be the equivalent of 4, 45acp hits at that range. And that energy in the load is all going to be dumped right there not in the wall or furniture behind. Frankly in a home defense unit - disable the safety no time to fumble around on that either. An intruder trying to get to you will cover 10 ft in1.5 seconds- so you have less than that to react. Been at this a while. Course none of the above means squat if your mind set is waving on weather to discharge the weapon or not- has to be rather instinctive. If in a quandary then a cast iron frying pan or baseball bat or something else along those lines would be a better choice.
That's the conventional wisdom and for the most part it's not necessarily correct. Since I don't really have the time or the inclination to argue online I said to do some research. An example being that you are incorrect with your opinion on over penetration. A shotgun will penetrate more than an AR round will. That's first and foremost. Secondly round count. How many rounds does a shotgun hold? An AR? Yup an AR holds 3 times the amount of ammo in one magazine. What if you have to reload that shotgun? Yeah not happening. A quick mag change and you are ready to go again. I'd rather grab a second mag in a pocket then fumble for more shotgun shells. How about accuracy? You point a shotgun and aim a rifle. How about the spread of a shotgun? Again accuracy goes to the AR. Follow up shots? Again AR due to the lack of recoil. Lack of recoil and the size and weight of both guns? Again AR wins especially with a more petite female. Hey I didn't believe it myself when I first heard it. But after shooting thousands of rounds during 3 gun competitions, idpa competitions, and some shotgun matches I will say that in most instances an AR is a better home defense weapon than a shotgun. Look to what the pros use to clear houses? It's not shotguns anymore. Better yet if you live in a state where you can build a short barreled rifle even better. Maybe I'll post some links later.
And if anyone thinks that some hopped up junkie is going to decide to turn tail and run because they heard a shotgun rack ... think again, studies have shown that theory wrong time and time again.
Don't overlook "the Judge" either good close range get the bad guys away from you gun - and much more maneuverable than a shotgun Easily handled by smaller folks in HD scenario and very minimal recoil all kinds of +P .410 rounds for it or load every other chamber in .45LC
General internet etiquette usually means the person that is saying your choice is wrong, is the one who needs to prove it. What shotgun load will out penetrate .223? Are you comparing a shotgun slug to a .223 varmint grenade type bullet? A slug to a fmj? How does bird shot stack up? BB shot? Buckshot? Not sure about round count down there, but 5+1 is standard here in shotguns. If you had 5+1, and 5 on a side carrier, would you be considered undergunned? If an intruder needed more than 11 blasts from a shotgun, he might be invincible. Mag changes, well, practice makes perfect with a shotgun. Shoot until empty, throw one in the chamber, and reload. You expect the guys gf to be a master with the AR platform, yet dropping deuces or quad loads on a shotgun would be too hard? If you can fumble shotshells, you can fumble magazines. How much accuracy do you need at inside home distances? Aim at middle of bad guy. If you miss with a rifle that close, how good are your chances with a shotgun? And again, are we talking shot, buck, or slug? Weight doesn't matter unless you hump it around all day. Recoil doesn't matter when you've got adrenaline. Recall how much recoil your deer rifle had when you shot the biggest buck of your life? Yeah, me either, I barely hear it, never mind feel it. Feel free to disagree, these are just some random counter points anyone could make.
Just a few links because I gotta eat dinner. In the end the best firearm for self defense is the one you will practice and train with. Pick what you feel is best for your situation and go with it. Just don't buy it, stick it in a safe, and call it a day. Take it out and practice with it. Take a class if they are available in your area. Make sure everyone in the house is familiar with and can use the firearm. Just my 2 cents AR-15: The Ideal Home Defense Gun? - Gun Digest The AR for Home Defense: One Expert's Opinion Home Defense: AR vs. Shotgun
