Help with right-of-way managment

We have a 15' right-of-way through our property that two families use. One family, let's call them the Jones's, have two children and are very good neighbors and friends. The other family, let's call them the Smith's live at the top of the hill at the end of the lane and have no children. Therefore they have have right of way to travel over our property and the Jones's and 5 other families further down the hill. First issue, Mrs. Smith drives way too fast for an 8' wide private lane in the country, especially considering the Jones's kids and the other grade school kids that live down the lane and the grandkids that frequently visit others down the lane. Secondly, the Smiths just paved the entire lane. Previously, it was gravel, which reminded you that you should drive slowly. Now, Mrs. Smith, UPS, USPS, FEDEX, Electric Company, Cable guy, contractors, etc. are driving even faster! Families with kids will not let them walk up the lane from the school bus stop to their houses, about 200 and 400 yds respectively.

So, my wife bought some temporary speed bumps to keep the kids and our pets safe and the Smith family went BERSERK!

Anybody have experience with "traffic calming" measures that actually work but don't necessarily pizz of the neighbors?

 

Instead of placing obstructions in the road (speed bumps) buy some signs to post.

Something on this order.

Being as it is that they have no children, they don't think to slow down as others with children would think to.

It may be past the point of speaking to them as the Smiths went beserk....but if it is at all possible to speak with them calmly, there may be some light shed on the concerns you have about their habits?
As far as anyone else...cable, ups, etc. etc. I would personally stop them and let them know that this sort of driving will not be tolerated!

 

Well I tried what yooper tried,up here in the mountains,neighbors took signs down.Took backhoe down and dug "drainage ditches" at an angle,feeding runoff into the creek(nothing they could say about that),and it worked.Speed bumps are ok in my book.

 

I think I remember your posts about those #*%@!!! Sounds like it worked out quite well then.
This road is paved though....and private-probably owned by all the homeowners.

Bad thing is, you have to get along with the goofs that can't figure out common consideration.

I have a somewhat similar situation with a set of neighbors that are nothing more than retired drunks still acting like college kids!

 

I like these. They are very non-threatening, but get the point across. Just what I'm looking for. If it were up to me and the wife we would be posting these, facing up hill toward the Smiths.

I mentioned this to Mrs. Smith yesterday and she immediately got my message

 

Actually,a road through private property that others have access through,they do not own it,they can repair/upgrade/maintain it but do not have any ownership.We voted a low speed limit,just no way to enforce it,so now we have ditches!!

 

I had a nice long talk with Mrs. Jones today. She immediately asked me "Does Mrs. Smith know she drives like a bat out of hell?" Also, I let Mrs. Smith know that Mrs. Jones (and several others on the lane with kid and grandkids) are afraid of traffic (i.e. Mrs. Jones) and won't allow their kids to walk on the lane, which they have every right to use. Mrs. Smith's response was that kids shouldn't be on the lane and that letting her kids walk on the lane (even on their own private property) was a "bad parenting issue." Then she asked me "Do you think they are going to be together for much longer?"
Thankfully, Mrs. Jones said "O.K., I need to go up and talk to Mrs. Smith."I so wish I could be there when she reads her the riot act. Mrs. Jones is very rational, direct, and doesn't take any bullshizzl from anyone.

In the end, my wife and I really appreciate that all our our neighbors have been very reasonable for the last 9 years (including the Smiths). Really, this has been the first real "issue" that has gotten anyone's pants in a bunch. We are all lovably imperfect and eccentric, but in the end it all works out. I hope this works out the same way too. However, as of now, that's in Mrs. Smith's court, and lately she has proven herself a " Super King Kamehameha Kamehameha be-@tch."

Thanks for letting me vent. As I said, any calm and rational, even humorous ideas/solutions are appreciated. The last thing I want is feuding with the neighbors or paying lawyers to hash it out.

 

Yep, state law says we can set any speed limit we want, but of course we have no way to enforce it. In the end, we have to educate the Smiths that they absolutely have the right to cross our property, but they absolutely do not own it and certainly can't do whatever they want. P.S. law clearly states that maintenance and improvement is their responsibility. We don't owe them a single cent. Now we just have to teach them that this is not their personal private driveway, but just the right to cross our property with minimal disturbances to our intended uses. That's a hard sell. They seem entitled to it as their private property driveway.

 

WhooHoo 100% same here!Lifes a bi***

 

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If the ROW is 15 feet wide, and the driveway is 8 feet wide, why not cut a path for whomever to use for walking?

While you may be able to slow Mrs Smith's driving for a while, the sense of entitlement will return as well as her driving habits. Add to it the USPS, UPS, and FED Ex drivers who are always in a hurry?

I live on a dirt and gravel road where most drive sensibly. But there are some who have almost clipped me while I've been mowing the lawn by the road (I try to maintain both sides) and the majority of those feel they are entitled to drive how they feel. More dust flying ........ wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. But for the time I'm using that road, my maximum speed is 20mph and if I see I'm raising too much dust, I'll slow to where I'm not raising near as much. And if one or more of those who like to double or triple my top speed are behind me, Oh well!

Now if they want a demonstration of speed on that road, be it on a motorcycle (not a dirt bike) or in my truck, all they need do is indicate that need and I'll leave em in a cloud of dust like they've never seen before.

So my suggestion is, put in a walk-able path and that way everyone can be happy as well as safe.

 

I have the same issue at deer camp. Shared driveway a quarter mile long. The residents at the far end have 6 people living there, and all drive like it's Nascar.
I've given up trying to be nice. Now I just stand in the road, when I hear them coming, wave politely, and force them to slow down. After a year of this, they seem to have gotten the picture.

They had the driveway to themselves for 30 years, so it took some training for them to realize that it's a shared road now.

 

Did you agree on a speed limit with the majority of the neighbors? Have you posted it?

Once posted the commercial drivers should slow down. If not, first talk to them, if they do not slow down then report them to the safe driving number on the back of their truck. Most are route drivers and the same guys are there every time. They don't want complaints on their records.

While L.E.O.'s cannot help you with enforcement on a private road, once you have posted the agreed limit you do have grounds for a civil action. If you can, borrow a sports radar gun to document their speed. I would suggest a brief discussion with a local attorney. He may be able to write a letter explaining the rights, responsibilities, and consequences of using a private road.

KaptJaq

 

#57's a foot deep x ten foot length at spaced intervals. Or...waterbars.

 

Thanks for the help all. We'll continue to work with everyone in the neighborhood to come up with a reasonable solution. I wish we could put in a "sidewalk" or such but the ROW runs through dense woods and is often constrained by large boulders, so this would be a major undertaking and expense, and I just don't have the time or money right now. Also, the ROW agreement explicitly prohibits curbing, so putting in a sidewalk without a curb seems like it wouldn't provide much if any additional protection.

 

My family would be more important than "pizz'd off neighbors". If the speed bumps do not violate the terms of the ROW I would leave them there. Not getting a lawyer involved now might be a mistake, if somebody gets hurt there will be lawyers involved later.

 

In doing a little digging around with the local twp office and online (read with a great deal of skepticism), Speed bumps are kind of considered "the nuclear option" for "traffic calming." They are obviously effective in slowing traffic, but they come with "potential" liabilities like damage to his snow plow if I don't get them out of the way for him in time, people have been successfully sued for delaying EMS response by speed bumps and of course any damage to cars, bikes, etc. None of these are black and white of course, but it seems like you have to think long and hard about placing them. Most municipalities have very extended plans for traffic calming involving engineering, political and citizen inputs and cycles of test, measure, reassesses if needed, etc. Obviously, this is very important for Public roads. However, private roads and ROW's are a much grayer area, and certainly varies from case-to-case and from jurisdiction-to-jurisdiction. For now, we will start with educating all the users of the ROW and posting signs (on my private property.) I'll probably reach out to my local attorney, too for a brief review. This stuff is absolutely bread-and-butter law in a semi-rural setting like we have here. I will keep you all up to date.

 

Agree, 100%. That's why I just like to discuss things candidly face-to-face.