Production Woodstock IS

OK, I am with you now.

I do not believe it will really make much difference as long as the tip of the probe is over the cat.. The entire surface of the cat. runs at about the same temp. (easy to verify- just look at it and note the very even color when it is active) and the actual thermocouple inside the outer sheath is located right at the tip so as long as the tip is brought up to the same temp. as the cat., it will read very accurately. I have tested this, totally by mistake, when I was using bead thermocouples and stainless steel tubing sections in order to get a thermcouple above the cat.; as things were altered and moved around, the thermocouple (the tip of the stainless steel tubing which was pinched shut) ended up all over the place above the cat and the SS tubing was always the same color (so same temp.) as the cat.

Not trying to dump on your idea or saying it is a bad idea, just my opinion that it is not all that important how far the temp. probe extends over the cat., as long as it IS over the front edge.

With all that said, by all means, please do tinker around and post whatever you find- I would much rather be wrong and corrected than wrong and not know it and so always welcome all information.

A little OFFTOPIC: The trusses are here along with sufficient lumber and sheathing (trying out the Zip system on the walls), and a crew is scheduled to start Monday morning on putting up the walls on the second floor. Crane will be here Tues. mid- day to move the roof sheathing onto the second floor floor, and then lift the trusses onto the second floor walls. There is a chance of rain Tues. night but it is less than 25% so at this point I am willing to pull the proverbial trigger and begin this phase of the project. All of which is to say that if it goes off, I <may> have a chimney back above the woodstove as early as the following week and again be able to burn wood! I did have a fire or two back in Sep. but then the second floor went into a couple of dumpsters and of course the chimney was dissembled and is lying in the back yard :-( So maybe, with a little luck, I might be back 'in the fold' soon and I am really looking forward to that. Well, that and closing the 20" wide openings above the first floor, stopping it from raining inside my first floor and a host of other little annoyances. Yea Woodburning!

Brian

 

not any closer to williaty have I missed the pics of stove cat etc.. I mean he's an fhc guy and fellow IS guy we (read smarter than me bdf, hollywood babaganosh and others etc etc) should be able to figure this out..

 

Yes, another really good point- these stoves really work best with full loads of wood, throttled back for a long, steady burn in cat. mode. Every fall I have to learn that lesson over again. The first couple of really small fires are fine because very little is asked of the stove but once it turns to, say. 35F to 40F and you would like a longer lasting fire, it is difficult to get all the wood well- engaged and then throttled back without overheating the house.... sometimes overheating it by a lot. So yes, things will get a lot easier once it is deeper into the winter and the stove can be used a bit harder.

Brian

 

OK, I'll try to address all the things people have said, hopefully I won't miss any major points.

1) I live in southwestern Licking County, Ohio near the Columbus metro area. If there's anyone around close enough to come give me some pointers I a SOOOOOO in favor of that!

2) Because I've been having trouble, I've been checking each load of wood I bring in. They're all measuring 15-18% on a freshly split face.

3) Chimney is 2' taller than Woodstock's minimum but I do wonder if that's enough given that 12' of the 17' total are double wall pipe (which is going to lose heat faster than Class A). All I can say is that it draws well with the door or grate open and it never spills smoke or ash when the door is open.

4) Smallest load I've run was 7 Enviro Bricks, 2 large splits, and a bunch of very small splits to get it moving. That's actually the best fire I've had. Typical load is 4 Enviro Bricks, 4 big splits, and a big pile of smaller stuff to get it going.

5) The cat DID eventually run last night. About an hour after loading the stove (about 30-35 minutes after flue temps >600F), the cat slowly began to gain temperature. It took it about an hour to work its way up to 1300F, held 1100-1300F for about 90 minutes, then began sinking back down again, falling to around 600F about 90-120 minutes later.

 

It sounds like it is working. Have you ever done a top down fire to start the stove?

 

Yep, they're all top-down. I figured if that's the way Woodstock showed in the video, that's the way I'd do it.

Is the cat supposed to only slowly increase in temperature like that? You guys make it sound like it takes off near instantly once the inputs for temp and fuel are met.

 

I probably missed this but can you elaborate on the wood you use?
1) what kind?
2) where did it come from?
3) how long has it been split/stacked?
4) where and how has it been stacked?
(Include any covering and exposure to sun/wind).
5) what was the climate like this summer where you live?

Have you tried with just the bricks in a tight stack of 12-14?

I'm a little suspicious of your moisture readings.

 

1) 99% Ash, some cherry mixed in
2) From my property due to the EAB and storm damage
3) This bit has been stacked 18-20 months
4)20160913-firewood_reserves-0004.jpg by Ty Williams, on Flickr
5) This summer was unusually hot and extremely dry for us

 

Unhdsm I understand where your coming but with 4 envirobricks even if his wood was 25% the average would be close enough.. my wood is marginal at best 22% avg (but got next 3 years stacked) IS runs fine I leave by pass open longer.. I am wondering about his gaskets has a call been made to Woodstock?

 

I wanted to isolate everything but honestly after seeing his woodpile I'd love to burn that in my IS. I went back and looked at the rest of the posts again and I am stumped. Grasping for straws here- I think the chimney meets the 10-10-2 rule- are there any trees near it?
Other than that it is either operator or something wrong with the stove.
I will have a similer setup in the new house done in a couple weeks with an OAK so I'm somewhat invested in this.
Btw I DONT think the double wall pipe is the problem as long as it is installed right and not plugged up.

 

The 10-2 rule didn't come into play. The roof is VERY shallow, just 1:12. Meeting the rule for projection above the roof deck already put me about 12" higher than the 10-2 rule to the ridge would have.

Yes, there is a tree near the chimney. There was one limb that overhung the chimney enough the exhaust made the leaves dance so we cut that limb off before it caught fire. However, the tree still does sit quite close to the chimney (6' to 10' horizontal separation and 15' taller than the chimney just as a guess eyeballing it from the ground).

 

I don't know a lot about how that decreases draft or how far away they need to be but I do know that can be a factor.

 

williaty OK I am missing something.. first I do not have a cat probe.. no idea what Temps are in there.. how I know the cat is working is no smoke out the chimney... I lit my stove at 1 pm.. engaged cat no smoke.. another reason I know cat is working is flu Temps drop while stove top goes up.. I do get secondaries down from top for hours but I assume after 2 hours you are in the charred stage and should have a lot less smoke anyway.. I am wondering ... since you say you have good draft.. if you are not damper in air control down enough.. too much air forcing smoke thru cat too fast so it isn't getting enough chance to burn... I hope that makes sense.. the truck equivalent of a diesel rolling coal or black smoke coming out stacks.. it's really unburned fuel

 

Ok. The plot thickens. But.

Have you called Woodstock yet?

 

I meant to call them today but I completely forgot. I'll try on Monday I guess.

 

The double wall pipe should be more than fine. Class A is a bit better but people run them with just stove pipe to the support box or wall pass thru and don't have any problems.

 

Can you take some pics of the next fire you make and then make a quick log of what adjustments you make to the air and when you engage the cat? Let's say start at when you light it and then whenever you do something jot it down and record how many minutes in you have done it.

As much information as possible..like what notch you put the stove at and what temps you were at when you did it. Pics always help.

Is your sled smooth? Maybe something is causing a blockage..maybe the air control is bound up? I wish I lived close so I could come look

The stove itself is big..it does take a little bit to get the entire stove and soapstone up to temperature from a cold start.

Maybe try a cold start and roll with some thinner splits to preheat the stove. Don't engage the cat at all. Then after an hour or so reload it with a full load while it's still hot. Get you temps up and then engage the cat.

 

So you are doing top down fires. Here is the next question. Are you doing the top down fire correctly? Is the wood below catching and taking off like it should? Do not close things down until the wood at the bottom is well involved.

Top down fires require some technique. I believe this is your problem. From what you described about cat temperatures, it is working correctly. You just need to work on getting the fire established.

 

The fire does light quick, at least compared to trying to make a traditional fire in an outdoor burn pit or in an indoor fireplace. So long as I keep the ash pan door open, it burns enthusiastically and does get the bottom splits involved within about 15 minutes. The problem is closing the ash pan door, even with the draft full open, produces a result not entirely different from throwing a heavy wet blanket on the fire. Typically, I have to get the flue temps up to >650F and STTs over 200F before I can close the ash pan grate without the fire completely going out. Once it cools down a little more tonight, I'll give it another go and report here.

 

Close the ash pan door and do not use it anymore. Let's start from scratch. Stack your bottom splits like in my picture. Use 2x4 lumber or the driest possible kindling you have. Cut it into small pieces. Get yourself some Firestarter squares like in the picture at the center. Fill the top with kindling criss crossing. Use a lot of it. Light the Firestarter and leave the door cracked for the first 5-10 minutes or until the fire is involved. With the air control fully opened, close the door. Let us know what happens.