Will a new hybrid stove solve my problems

Hello, new member...
First, tell me if this should be a new post but I kind of am focussing my question to the people here as I am considering an AS or IS for a new stove.

Back Story
I am currently (past 7 years)burning a 30ish year old Woodstock Classic-Third owner. I love the stove however I have two small children now and the stove is definitely not clean, inside the house or obviously outside the house. I burn 1-2 year old wood, mixed batch-mostly maple and black cherry-about 4 cords a year, have a 18ft. external block/clay lined chimney, and the stove top fill lid and side feed door are both not tight anymore. It is, and needs to be, a rear vent with about a 2-2.5ft horizontal run (through a brick wall/hearth thing) to the external chimney. We do have lots of trees around the chimney which is uncapped, and the ones that I can I try to prune at or below level of the top. Thanks to this sight and other unmentionables I have improved our inside smoke issues greatly (we used to regularly fight a smoke filled room and back puffing late night/early mornings) by 'sealing' the external clean out door and buying a soot eater (which is awesome) to aid in more routine cleanings through out the winters because we get a lot (5 gallon bucket+) of creosote build-up(perhaps do to the oversized stove-see question 2).

Here are my questions:
1)will an IS or AS help my smoke-in-house and soot/dust escaping into house every time we fill the stove or burn it on frigid nights? My wife and I are starting to get concerned about our health and especially the kids. It is our primary heat source and would like to keep it that way.(we also have a Harmon pellet stove actually-8years and running strong)

2) Do you all think the Absolute or Ideal is more appropriate? The stove is in a very cold 20x30 single floor addition with high cielings (9ft) which is only open to the house by a regular door opening. We don't burn the Classic full tilt often for the shoulder seasons but do in the heart of a normal winter. THis is probably leading to the creosote (as well as the external chimney) and am hoping/thinking a more efficient stove will help this problem as well.

So, in conclusion
I want less smoke in the house and less dust escaping every time I fill it. (I understand some dust is inevitable when it comes to wood heat.) Do you all think an AS or IS will solve this issue or are there bigger issues that need to be addressed before spending money on a new stove?

A lot to ask I know, just trying to be thorough. I have followed Flamested here and elsewhere, saw that OldHippy got one...and LOVE my Classic except for all it's short comings. Very happy with Woodstock as well, will go visit before I purchase.

Thank you all-again should this be a new post?-thanks for your experienced input.

 

Well thank you. Just realized I probably should have edited the opening of the post rather than copy and paste from where it was originally posted... Oh well. You all still get the idea.

 

I'm wondering if there isn't a "negative pressure" issue pulling smoke out of the stove,,
Did I read that creosote is a problem with the clay flu/chimney? That'll happen if the stove is run "choked down",, or using unseasoned wood
Open damper, crack the door for a few seconds before opening door completely and smoke shouldn't be a problem in the house..unless there is negative pressure in the room/house, or an under-temp flu..
Dust from cleaning/shoveling ash out of the stove is gonna' happen but there shouldn't be plumes of it and can be minimized to some extent..
"Back puffing" would indicate negative pressure and/or a flu that is not hot enough,,creosote = cold flu or unseasoned wood,,or both.
"door and lid not sealing anymore",,I dunno what to say to that,,are they warped?, can they be adjusted?,,are gaskets missing?
Curious what others have to say,,

 

18 foot,,,how close is the roof?,,,there are specs that dictate the height of the chimney from the roof line,,would an insulated extension improve things ?
Any way to insulate the existing clay liner ?

 

I agree with greendohn that it seems like a negative pressure situation. Do you burn your pellet stove continuously too? If so do you have an outdoor air kit for that stove? If not, it's taking air from your house for combustion and pushing it out the exhaust pipe. I'd consider doing the following in order.

1. Buy a moisture meter to confirm the moisture content of the wood that you are burning. $30.. General Tools Pin-Type Digital Moisture Meter with LCD Display-MMD4E - The Home Depot
2. Replace the gasket around the doors on your wood stove. $30 (if it has deteriorated).
3. Consider installing an Outdoor Air Kit for your pellet stove. $150-200.
4. Install an insulated flue liner for your wood stove. The fact that you have an external chimney makes it tough to keep the exhaust gasses hot before they exit the top of your chimney. If you do this, confirm that the flue is correct for the current stove AND for a new stove that you might want to buy. If you do this, I'd recommend the smooth wall flex liner for ease of cleaning.. $600...

Dry wood, a warm flue and correct house pressure should enable you to burn cleanly (not choking fire down, opening damper to get up chimney flow before opening doors, etc).. 5 gallons of creosote is way too much.. Good luck..

 

Yes you did read that. A big problem. We do run the stove 'choked down'...I think...at nights. Fill the stove-get it to temp-5oo degreesish-then incrementally (two increments: I get tired easily ) shut it down. When it is shut down there is a small air space all the way around so air still gets in. We do this most fires actually unless it is a true winter then we burn hotter.

I have that under control, it's the top loading that seems to send up ash. I have learned to open the damper before opening the lid, but ash still floats up and especially when logs are put in to re-load. I try to clean ash every load (rake with broken cultivator head scoop with ash shovel to metal bucket) which has reduced it. I have read about other top loads that get no flames or smoke when they open... HA! Yeah RIGHT!

Not too worried about this, just wondering if a tighter new stove would create less 'leakage'. Stove wasn't built with gaskets, although when I replaced a top stone they did send me some with it to use...interesting. I used it to seal some of the gap in the top lid too, worked pretty well.

And finally...stuckinthemud, I have often read about moisture meters and laughed thinking who buys these things...but for thirty bucks I might have to get me one. I'm that kind of dork that would use it regularly! And I ahve to admit I'd be curious. I dry for a year or two, but I am a coverer (just the top-I don't like all the leaves and shiznit getting in the stack) and it isn't in the driest sunniest spot.

I do have an outside air kit for the pellet stove, the stove never had gaskets so I don't know if I should put them in or if that will throw things off more???

And finally the liner...next post this is too long already.

 

I would second the above but in a different order.

Start with an outside air kit for both stoves. They will solve any negative pressure issues and reduce draftin the house.

Next would be line the chimney. If you have a good supply of outside air coming in and a good drafting chimney going out, the other issues become minor.

With good draft, a leaky gasket will make it hard to control the fire, but smoke won't be entering your house. The MC meter would be last on my list because it only tells you something, but does nothing on its own to fix it.

And the short answer to your question is no. A new stove will not solve the problem without taking care of the chimney and air supply. If your current stove can not take an OAK, that will help, and a new hybrid will burn cleaner and help the chimney stay clean, but only if it is drafting well.

 

The chimney is 18 feet but the 'burning part', for lack of other term, is only 12ft. So it's pretty short. Could be a problem???

How does one attach a chimney liner to a stove??? I have a rear vent stove through a fairly tight opening in a interior brick wall. The clean out for the chimney is another 3-4 feet down from the inlet pipe. How does one install a T like that...and how does one then clean out that T if there is no way to get to it?

Thank you all for your input already..got me thinking alot...and gives me something more to research which makes me Happy. "Funny little clapping hands du-dad which I'm not sure how to add yet."

 

Oh! Which also reminds me, no one believes a 3 ft horizontal run out of a stove is too long before vertical? Just curious, I always figured that would be somewhat of a cause since heat wants to go up.

Current stove definitely doesn't have OAK, but a potential new stove does.

Thanks for putting a 'damper'on my moisture meter purchase, Matt. Now I can't geek out and bother my wife more with useless data.

 

Are there other appliances competing for air in the house? Exhaust fans, water heater etc?

 

Whoa now! I did NOT say that you do not absolutely need one or for that matter at least a half dozen. I just said it would be last on the list of four things muck man suggested to solve your smoke issues.

 

My list was designed to go from cheapest to most expensive.. $30 for a moisture meter to rule out wet wood is not a big investment.

As for the liner, it would be challenging to install but not impossible. Theory is that you push the the horizontal portion of the T through the thimble and then thread the liner down through the clamp and then tighten.

For your situation, it would be difficult to clean out the bottom of the T so I would add an extra 12" piece of pipe to catch falling ash/creosote at the bottom and then vacuum it out from inside the house when you clean the chimney.. If adding a foot or two to the top of your chimney is a possibility, consider doing that first as you don't want to cut a stainless steel liner too short and then have to either add on or buy a new one to make it to the top..

I really think the issues are caused by a big cold masonry chimney that is killing any draft you might have.. I could be wrong.. Got any pics of your setup?

 

The first year I burned, I was woefully short on wood.. I bought a moisture meter to help me gage which dead/down or dead/standing wood I could load in the stove and get a decent burn.. Now I just use it on occasion to confirm that my stacks are drying on schedule..

Not at all. 3 feet is pretty short and the exhaust gasses won't cool that much in the short distance.. The cooling in your chimney is backing things up..

 

Cost is only relevant for our own lists. When spending someone else's money, cost is not a big factor.

 

This is true Matt. I get to buy lots of toys with other people's money...unfortunately this time it's mine and (as for most I imagine) I burn because I don't have a lot of it. (they didn't have the world's smallest violin)

I'll look into insulating (that is the same as a liner yes...no other way to insulate?) and extending. Not a thrilling money sink but we are looking for long term children health...and what better is there to spend money on?

oh these little emoticons could become dangerous

 

Thank you about the horizontal run, I'm surprised that wouldn't slow draft...but I believe you.