Well I'm stepping back in to deer hunting after about a 10 or 12 year separation. When I got out of it, I had only bow hunted for quite a few years. Me and a buddy from work have secured a nice piece of ground and we're going to hunt with the old smoke poles. I have an old Knight LK 93 that uses #11 percussion caps. I just went through it completely and everything is in good shape. I figure I'd probably pony up and get a new scope as the one on it is kinda junky. I also pretty much assumed it to be necessary to buy the conversion kit to switch it over to 209 primer ignition? It's only about a $60 kit. Is it worth it on such an old gun, though? It will still have an open breech and use these plastic jackets. I'm sure it works, but still seems somewhat dated to me. 209 Primer Ignition 50 Cal Muzzleloader Conversion Kit The new technology appears to be leaps and bounds better than this. Does anybody hunt with a muzzleloader? What are your opinions or experiences with the conversion or older guns like this? I have my eye on a couple of different new ones....but just not sure it's really worth it.
The bottom line would be accuracy for me. Do you feel that old Knight's barrel can still put them on target to your satisfaction? If so, then go for it. Would certainly still be cheaper than a new gun. The main other thing I would consider would be a switch to a new propellant such as Blackhorn 209. I gave up using blackpowder in my "old" first generation Thompson Encore 50 cal. The Blackhorn is very accurate and much easier to clean up than blackpowder residues.
That's another potential issue. From what I've read online, the older knight with the plunger or slam fire style firing system still limits me on powder options. I used to use Pyrodex in it with no issues. I supposed I'd probably try 777 now, but it'd be nice to be able to step up to the newer propellants like Blackhorn just for the ease of cleaning alone. I've been strongly looking at the LHR Redemption 50 caliber muzzleloader. I like the idea of the break open action and take down build. The tool-less cleaning rocks too....and it seems like a very innovative rifle.
I've got that exact rifle. Buy the conversion...money well spent. 209s are hotter, and more available. 11s are impossible to get in my neck of the woods. 777 is where it's at imo. I use 100grs on top of a 250gr Barnes expander mz projectile and can center punch the bull at 100yds with ease. (Whatever you do, do not use powerbelt projectiles!) You won't be sorry you spent the $ on the upgrades. That gun will shoot every bit as good as the $700 Thompsons but the fan boys won't admit it.
Are you using regular shotgun 209 primers or the muzzleloader 209 primers? Leaning pretty heavily on just ordering the upgrade and going with it as this old Knight is in great condition and no worries about the barrel at all.
Using remington clean bore primers iirc. I'm not picky on primers. I buy 100 new every year, of whatever brand is on the shelf and test for poi before hunting season. Never had to adjust the scope from switching brands either. Those guns are great. Not a huge fan of 2 safeties, but accuracy is spot on. There's no need to buy a new one.
Well...this just in....a development in the story. My wife has been watching me research and listening to me lament this decision and is now insisting that she buy me a brand new muzzleloader for our anniversary. She is complaining that I buy her stuff but she never gets to buy me anything!! Crazy woman!! I love her. So.....I don't want to mess with ordering anything as it's a hassle in Illinois....gotta go through FFL. I would just as soon go to Bass Pro or Gander Mountain....or local gun shop even better. What to consider? What to stay away from? I like the idea some are doing now with the nitride barrels and such.
My understanding was that most muzzleloaders could still ship direct to your door, even in unfriendly states. It's the guns that can accept modern cartridges as well as muzzleloaders (T/C Encore) that need and FFL. As to your original question, I used #11's for a few years and never had an issue. I eventually converted my muzzleloader to musket caps, mostly because they were easier to handle with gloves on. But I've never felt that I needed to have 209 primers, as long as you keep everything clean those little 11's do fine.
There are many decent muzzleloader today. I use an Encore with T7 powder. No recommendatigun-but there are decent models at every price point.
What is the issue with powerbelt bullets? I have some and don't know of any issues, other than I have yet to kill a deer with them! I picked up a great used Omega 50 on Gunbroker. Scoped with the Nikon Omega and in excellent shape. Think I paid 345 for it, and it was shipped directly to me, in NJ! Not exactly a gun friendly state.
Wifey took me to local gun shop this afternoon and bought me the LHR Redemption 50cal muzzleloader and scope!! While there I found out that LHR was purchased by TC and is now marketed as the TC Strike. They changed a couple of things, of course, but I like the LHR better. For now the Knight is going to stay as is and my son is going to try it out. If he get's into it I'll convert it to 209. I bought some Blachorn 209 powder as well, but man I'm having a tough time finding Barnes Expander MZ bullets. I have found them in a couple of online stores, but they are pricey with shipping. It seems like the stores only have Power Belts, Hornaday, and some TC for muzzleloader bullets. Most were polymer tipped. Any other ideas for bullets to consider before I pull the proverbial trigger on the Barnes?
Oh...and a muzzleloader is treated just like a shotgun or rifle purchase here. We have to have our FOID card and take a 24 hour timeout before walking out with the gun. It was easier to purchase in store than order and it saved me $150 when all said and done!!
I have the TC Omega and use the Powerbelts. I have had good luck with them. Accurate and hard hitting. Only potential problem I've had is the need to keep the rifling clean from the plastic when I shoot several times. Thinking of buying another for my oldest son. Schoondog
Put a Powerbelt in ur pocket and walk around all day. You will find that the copper "jacket" is simply copper plating that wears right off leaving you with a lead mini ball. Compared to the solid copper barnes, they fragment losing weight retention, which means less kinetic energy delivered to the target animal. The 1 year i used the pbelts, I shot a doe at 20yds in the shoulder and the bullet grenaded. It killed her, but there was lead all up in that deer! The barnes are pricey being solid copper, but worth it. The tc Shockwave is supposed to be good also, but I have no experience with them. I prefer a true hollow point bullet, but lots use tipped with success. Op, congrats on the purchase! Buy 1 pack of the barnes and do some penetration tests comparing them to other projectiles on hard targets....you'll see why I recommend them.
I had one incident where I shot a doe at 20 yards as well. Only problem I had was that the deer was never recovered for harvesting. I scoured the area after loosing the blood trail, but never found her. A week later I stumbled upon the carcass. The shot was 4 inches up off the brisket, right behind the shoulder. No idea why that deer wasn't piled up in 75 yards. She ended up going upwards of 400 yards. Shocked to say the least. I will use the last of the Powerbelts and move to something else. Thanks for the heads up.
I have seen first hand odd shaped holes in the targets while punching paper when using the powerbelts. Some of the holes look like the powerbelt is going through the paper sideways. This leads me to believe that some of the powerbelts are tumbling while in flight. I've heard similar stories from others too and we have all stopped using them My $0.02
I ordered 245gr Barnes Expander MZ last night and am hopeful they will do well for deer. Graf & Sons - BARNES 50cal 245gr EXP-MZ BULLET w/SABOT 24/bx I thought they only made 250's and 300's so I hope these aren't something different. I found some smaller packs of 15pcs of the 250gr but boy that drives price up.
Those will work dandy! Never seen 245, but honestly i havent looked for them in years. Midway shows the 24pks of the 250s are only a seasonal run. That explains why I had trouble finding them. Last time I found them on closeout at the end of season I bought enough for the rest of my life! I suggest stocking up at the end of season if they work well for you. Post up your targets when you get it out!
If you guys are only shooting at 20 yards, you might want to take a look at solid lead bullets. I used to use Hornaday Great Plains bullets, and they grouped fine out to 100 yards. Any further than that and I would have used a sabot, but all of my hunting was in tight woods so I never needed to "reach out and touch 'em". And at 385 grains, they're going to keep their energy! Hornady Great Plains Muzzleloading Bullets 50 Cal 385 Grain Lead Another benefit is that I could go further between swabbing the barrel when practicing. It seemed I pretty much had to clean the barrel every 1-2 shots using powerbelts or sabots or else I had a hard time getting the bullets seated all the way down. But I could go for 8-10 shots with the Great Plains bullets.
