ZTR Mower Hydraulics Issue

Just in case anyone here happens to know mowers, I have a problem.

My Ferris IS3100Z (2009, 37hp Kawi, 61" deck) has under 400h on it. It isn't due for a hydro oil replacement until 500h, but since I had the filter I went ahead and changed the filter and fluid in the reservoir. And I found metal shavings. The biggest flecks were about the size of grains of salt.

In the last couple of months (I run this mower about 5h/week) I've also noticed the left motor is a bit slow to respond when I first start the mower and move it from its storage spot. It goes away in a few seconds.

So now I'm thinking my hydro pump(s) and hydro motors might need help. And since the new cost of these are over $800/each, I'm in a better safe than sorry frame of mind.

Should I buy rebuild kits for all of them, flushing the lines, and overhauling the whole system? Or just part of it?

 

As much as you don't want to hear it, I'm in the camp of replace them all...not rebuild. Now if it's just for personal use, run it till something gives out and then replace it all. Commercial use, replace it asap.
500 hours seems high for that spec. I change mine at 150.

 

What color was the metal flakes you saw? Silver or bronze?

It's not uncommon to find some particles in the hydro system from brake in.

Check the tow/dump valve on the left motor to make sure it didn't get moved slightly.

 

I will check on that. The flakes are silvery. No bronze. I could not find my magnet but I assume they're steel.

The mower is for personal use, so $2500 for new hydros and pumps will be a huge hit. That's half of the value of the mower. I put less than 100h in per year.

It seems I can get rebuild kits for everything for under $500. Plus I'll be able to get rid of all of the metal in the system and replace one of the components if it's shot. If it only adds a year, it might be worth it.

This made me think of the way I mow - I mow around several hundred feet of fenceline, and in swerving around each post sometimes I rub the left wheel on the post. Sometimes more firmly than others. So finding wear on the left motor and pump would be no surprise.

MM, are you saying you'd not make any repairs at all? Or clean the system and do basic rebuilds and just see how long it goes?

David

 

Would it be possible to just flush, new filter, and then monitor it? I'm cheap.

 

Run it and change the fluid again. You could have the system tested to get an idea if there's any damage done. Likely not worth it though.

 

Change the fluid and filter soon....then run it till it pukes. Could be next week or never.

 

All I know is those pumps are crazy expensive and one needing to be done quickly makes a parts machine.

 

Pumps are $850 (x2), motors are $800 (x2).

I've already sweetened the oil by changing what's in the reservoir tank and changed the filter. It's not really set up to be drained.

I think I'll dig into it and clean stuff out and change the filter again. I found a service manual for the Hydro-Gear pumps, and will look for info on the motors. It doesn't look like there is $800 worth of damage to any of those components if you catch it early. That will remove all of the metal, and if one of these items is failing, should prevent it from taking out the others.

David

 

My Toro puked a hydro a few years back. It is the "all in one" Hydrogear unit (model 2800 maybe?) the pump and motor all in one sealed unit. I would not buy a Z turn again that didn't at least have the ability to drain/fill the oil and a filter that can be changed. I really believe the metal shavings I found in there could have been flushed out after break in if it had a drain, maybe the failure could have been avoided
Anyways, I did a full rebuild on mine for ~$250, new one was ~$800. Before I put it back together I went to the local Toro dealer where I found out I knew the mechanic, he told me to put Mobil full synthetic oil (don't recall the weight, but I could find it if need be) back in it instead of the petrol based oil the OEM called for. He said to pull the other side apart to get the OEM oil outta there too, save another rebuild, which it did. No further problems with either side...

 

Just change oil and filter, flush hydro tank, 500 hrs is correct!. this is normal, no need to rebuild or replace. If your pumps feel good on both sides and no leaks they r ok. Make sure hydro lines that have fittings r tight, and keep on mowing. Service manager 20 years on just about all zero turns

 

^ He's got scag in his name...and it sounds like he knows his stuff too.

 

Thanks.

Is it normal that my left motor is sluggish for a few seconds right when I start up cold?

"Hydraulic Fluid" in this case is Mobil1 15w-50 engine oil, per the manual.

David

 

That is correct oil. if it doesnt wine, should be ok. Sometimes a hydro filter and oil change does alot for little things you may feel or hear.

 

Some years called for synthetic mobil 1, should say in manual or a sticker on hydro tank

 

Thanks. I've come down from my panic place.

I crawled around the mower and got the Hydro Gear and Parker part numbers off of the pump and motor. It seems there is a "charge pump" within the hydro pump - which might be the source of my sluggish startups. I was also able to download full service instructions for both my pump and motor. Youtube videos of the pump teardown suggest that rebuilding this is much easier than rebuilding a chainsaw.

At risk of being overly reactive, I'm never happy seeing metal shavings. I'm probably going to rebuild the left side pump at a minimum, flush the lines and tank, and install another filter. $60 for two rebuild kits, $25 for another 5qt of oil, and $15 for a filter. Based on what I find I do more or less than that.

 

A buddy of mine is an Exmark mechanic. He has told me horror stories of the problems caused because of the new Mobil one. They changed the formulation and no longer include zinc. This caused shear breakdown of the oil. Exmark got after Mobil One to reformulate some which they now sell under the Exmark brand that includes zine like the older stuff did before the change.

 

Mobil1 15w-50 has 1200ppm phosphorus and 1300ppm zinc. While other viscosities were reformulated for less zddp, the "racing" grades were mostly left alone.

If you want more, there are racing-only grades that will get it:
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=16&pcid=1