Ideal Steel smoke test results of rear plate cavity.

Hello all,
I decided that rather than clutter up the Ideal Steel pooping thread, I would post my own thread describing what I found.

I am using a Blue Point evaporative emissions smoke tester. I removed the rear plate at the location of pooping creosote and put the hose in there with rags to close it off.

After pressuring the cavity, I found smoke exiting the rear stove intake bottom hole (secondary air intake?) . I then closed this hole off with a rag and smoke started coming out of the holes in the secondary burn plate at the top of the firebox.

In my mind the mystery is solved. Creosote has formed in the secondary pipe/ channels and worked its way into the cavity where the leak has formed. I hope this helps. Just for the record I have not had the creosote issue, I'm just investigating.

 

Thanks for the testing and the results are interesting. You may be right on the cause, however, Woodstock is going to do destructive testing on the stove to see where it was coming from. So far, my outgoing stove is the only one that has done this out of over 500 Ideals sold to date.

 

This tool is used in an automotive shop to find an emissions system leak. It is more of a specialized tool but most shops have them. I doubt they will rent it to you.

 

That was a cool experiment JA600L. Thanks for your time & posting, it helps me to grok how the flow goes through my IS. Would a smoke ball (we can't call them 'smoke bombs' anymore) work amost as well to find leaks and channels?

 

Well, that is a fine test and all and not trying to knock you at all but we really knew that that plate blocked off the secondary air intakes, and that they feed directly to the perforations on the stainless plate at the top of the stove. I do not really think that air path is or could be the cause of creosote leaking into that air intake as the chimney makes a low pressure pocket at the top of the stove, and all gas moving through the stove has to be from the draft to the secondaries, then into the stove, then out the exhaust path. There should never be any firebox materials, gas or liquid, moving from the firebox and into the secondary intake area intake.

Brian

 

Actually Tom mentioned in his email that it could be the cause. My point was to find out exactly where all the creosote could have come from. It is more likely that this is what is happening then there being a bad weld.

 

Yes, I read that post. But again, fluid (air and flue gas in this case) always move from a higher pressure to a lower pressure. I cannot think how the firebox could have a lower pressure than the chimney opening above it? All wood stoves that use natural draft bank of air moving from the draft inlet to the chimney and this has been working for centuries now without failure.

Then we must add the fact that out of many, many stoves, quite a few who regularly read and post on this forum, only one person has ever experienced the creosote inside the intake tract.

And finally, we will see if the stove's owner has the same problem with the next stove, which I very seriously doubt.

In the end, I have an easier time believing a weld was missed, not completely sealed or cracked during the abuse of delivery than physics failed in this particular gentleman's home And that is not a knock against Woodstock at all; in any production environment, mistakes and oversights happen. The only way I know to completely avoid mistakes is to not do anything at all

By the way, if you still have that smoke generator and want to kill a few minutes <chuckle>, how about a quick test to see where the primaries feed? I know they feed the air curtain above the glass to provide the air wash to keep the glass clean but I believe there is also another feed to the bottom of the stove on the right hand side. The primaries in my stove seem quite weak and I have wondered if my stove was somehow damaged in shipping also; my stove was apparently knocked over onto the face of the stove and righted before I got it; all the stone inside as well as the grate were knocked out of position and in a pile inside the stove when I opened the box. So I have always been curious as to whether or not there was a primary feed to the bottom / right/ front of the firebox that was perhaps blocked with debris in the tumbling of the stove? The primaries are the other side of the draft plate toward the front of the stove, just in front of where you had to plug up the secondary intakes for your original test.

As always, all information greatly appreciated, including what you have already done!

Brian

 

We did a cold start a while back after warm weather in a stone cold stove and flue and it took a good 20 minutes for the smoke to start going up the flue. At the very start of that fire we had some smoke coming out of the secondary intake at the bottom left of the stove for at least five minutes till we figured out how to correct it.

So despite physics, given a cold stove and the right atmospheric conditions smoke can regress through the secondary air path to the bottom of the stove.

We did not get any condensation or dripping however so I'm not sure how this applies to the current debate.

 

That's a good idea. I already put everything away so I'm not going to drag it back out again right away. I too would be curious to trace the primary feed. I'm sure I'll get to it some time and document it.

 

Just curious- How did you correct it, Brian?

 

Opened the door and cleared away the accumulated ash from in front of the primary air inlets on the left and right hand ends of the angle iron that the andirons sit on. I think they were blocked by the cold and hardened ash - my fault for not emptying the ash sooner. Plus I blew through the hole for the primary air below the door on the front with a straw. That seemed to set it right fairly quick.

 

This pic was taken looking down the back from the top. After reading this thread I went to take a look. There's a 3" black drip on top of the ash pan lid that's stored under the stove

 

Wow, it looks like there are two stoves out there doing this and maybe more.

 

The plot thickens.

 

I was just getting ready to say that!

 

Are you planning on calling Monday? If this is an emerging trend, they would probably be grateful to know.

 

The photo looks like three different drips.... ?

Can you tell (by the original placement of the ash pan cover) where on the stove this stuff is leaking from?

I think maybe it is a plot by Woodstock and next year they will be selling asbestos stove diapers.

Brian