Anyone burning the progress hybrid in this subzero snap?

Hey Guys,

It's been a long while since I have been on. Hope you all had a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

This summer we had a chance to tour the Woodstock Factory, it was very pleasant and informative. We are still debating between the progress and Ideal as the next stove in place of the fireview.

I have been following a lot of threads on both stoves but am wondering how the stoves have been working with tall stacks and cold temps as of late.

We have been hung up on leaving the utter control of a pure cat stove which has been working like clock work for the most part to a stove that has less control.

These past two winters have been a challenge with high winds and sub zero highs in MN. The draft can go pretty extreme and am concerned that the burn tube mode going nuclear and coming home to little heat and coals left for a reload and not being around to play with the air setting. We are hesitant to go down the road of metered secondary air stoves from bad past experiences, but need more heat/bigger firebox for mid winter.

From what I have gathered there is much in favor of the new control setup on the ideal vs the progress.

What's anyone's thoughts that have either stove?

 

Our first stove was a Woodstock Fireview. We burned a Beta Ideal Steel stove last winter and the difference in control was night and day. We really liked the control of the Fireview, but the Ideal Steel is idiot-proof in comparison. Set it and forget it. My 17yo son was running the stove more than any of us (we homeschool) and he thought the Ideal Steel was so much easier to control than the Fireview that he definitely preferred the Ideal Steel.

As I type, we're burning the first break in fire in our production model Ideal Steel, which I've had sitting in my living room on a pallet for several months but didn't get installed until both my sons could help me over Christmas break. There is a long ongoing thread regarding the production model Ideal Steel, and the most common comment is how very controllable it is.

I have no experience with the Progress Hybrid but several folks here have burned both so hopefully they will weigh in.

 

The PH is pretty easy to control too but I have no experience with the IS. In fact I had a deposit on the IS but my wife didn't want to make the hearth bigger to accommodate it so we went with the PH which fit like a glove. In our case the PH was a better fit since it has a higher top end and our house is pretty big, it heats 2800 sf so far no problems and I'm getting a 10 hour burn overnight. I do either 2 large loads with a small pine load in between to bridge the gap, in this colder weather I'll do 3 loads a day.

 

I have not heated with an Ideal Steel.

I did have a Fireview for a good number of years before getting the Progress Hybrid. Although I loved it, it did not have the heating capacity to heat my larger home, located in a cold climate.

I would not go back to the Fireview from the Progress Hybrid. There is a very significant increase in heat output, decrease in wood used to produce the same amount of heat, and increase in control of the stove.

A fire can be established and set for the long burn in the Progress Hybrid much more quickly than in the Fireview, with the result that I at least am much less likely to get distracted in the process, so I am much less apt to get the stove hotter than I want (and waste wood in the process). There is no comparison in the amount of heat put out through the windows of the two stoves, so the PH heats your home much more quickly, and gets it back to temp more quickly.

It is very controllable. You can have a roaring fire, and if you close the air the fire calms down immediately.

Don't know how tall your chimney is, or whether it is center of the home straight up? Mine IS tall, center of home, no turns. The draft is much stronger than in the backvented Fireview. I have the PH top vented. If you top vent the PH, the much bigger stove sits exactly where the Fireview sat on your hearth before, and you don't need to do anything to the hearthpad either. And the stove does not stick quite as far into the room as the rear vented Fireview. I got one of the original PHs in Dec 2011. Finally installed an ICC stovepipe damper section in my ICC ultrablack stovepipe about two weeks ago. The difference is significant. I am opening the damper only for reloads, and shut it completely as soon as I have any flame..usually within a minute or two. That stops 80 % of the airflow. I still have a very healthy draft and usually burn with the air completely closed if it is cold out, just cracked open if it is warm out. I am using less wood with the damper installed, getting lower stack temps and more heat out of the stove.

For instance, right now it is about ten degrees out (F) and windy, my site is exposed, over 3000 Sq ft in the home (first floor 46 x 32 with 8 foot 4 in ceilings) and many windows, I loaded five smaller ash splits this morning, about 10:30. The total amount of wood likely amounts to 5/6 of an 18 inch long 10inch diameter round. The stove burned in cat mode for a few hours, then switched to secondary burn for about two to three hours, and is now back to cat burn. It has been burning for 6 hours, stove maybe 2/3 full (more like half full if vs 22 inch lengths), house is 68 on the first floor. I've had the sliding glass door open about ten times for the dog, and several times for myself, so some cold air has obviously entered. It is very windy out and with the gusts I can really hear it in the chimney, so the fire is burning at this low setting close to as quickly as it will. I still have the back split pretty much in split shape, while the other splits are down to large coals. I will probably reload at about 6 and again at midnight, because I have brought ash inside to burn. If I decide instead to load ironwood, then I will not have to reload after 6PM until tomorrow morning.

I would definitely order the ashpan in the setting of a tall chimney, install a probe thermometer in the pipe and a damper section in the pipe.

I love this stove. It is beautiful, and an impressive heater.

I do believe that the Ideal Steel is easier to keep in cat mode, so you get longer burns. But the PH will give you 12 hour burns with good hardwood. It is easy to burn the PH with a moderate stovetop temp. It likes to sit right around 400 in my setting, with the air closed.

Feel free to ask any questions.

 

I agree with Sherwood, the PH is very controllable. I can't compare to the IS, but my brother has well made Jotul stove and was at my house during the holidays recently watching my stove burn all day. He could not believe the difference of control I have in comparison to his Jotul. My brothers comment to me was: "I realize now you have a Mercedes, and I just have a VW, that stove is amazing".

I get 12 to 16 hour burns when the temps are in the 30's. When it is in the teens or 20's, I get 10 to 12 hour burns normally, using mixed woods (70% hardwoods like red oak, black locusts, maple, and 25% pine, cedar..) in my loads. I normally load about 1/2 full when in the 30's, and 3/4 to loaded full on really cold days in teens. I'm heating 2000 sq feet, easily. My chimney is 15' straight up.

Why do you say the ashpan for "tall chimney" settings? Personally, I think anyone is crazy to not get the ashpan on the PH, in any setting. It is such a great setup, so easy to use, large....

I just want to point out, when the PH (or any hybrid stove) has secondary's burning, it does not mean the CAT is also not burning. When the secondary's are burning, the stove is likely very hot and hot enough for the CAT to be burning. So actually both are burning, which is when it really blasts heat out!

 

In fact, per Woodstock, when the secondaries are burning on the PH they can deprive the cat of enough oxygen to ignite. So there can be times when you cannot get a cat burn when you want to. But you can get a very controllable low secondary burn, and when that stops, the stove switches back to cat.

Woodstock resolved that issue with the IS by providing dedicated air to the cat. It would be extremely expensive to redesign the PH to provide the same feature, and the stove does heat beautifully as is.

The ashpan prevents the cat clogging issue that can occur with a tall chimney/strong draft.

 

With the PH it would sure be easier to hit your target house temp of 90+. And you know the old saying, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for heat to get out of the Fireview window." Just think, you could lie on the floor in front of the PH window and get a tan.

I haven't looked at the ICC damper but maybe you know...is that damper setup capable of cutting the draft further that a generic cast damper plate that you could pick up at a farm store?

Huh. I figured that at a given air setting, the hybrids would usually burn in secondary mode first, then the cat would take over later after the secondaries died...

I'm a big fan of a good ash-handling system, but why with the tall chimney?

Nice to know. I think I remember some other folks saying it wanted to run. I know a couple that moved into a new place and are thinking of putting a stove in at some point. I haven't seen the house yet but I know it is pretty good-sized and the PH was one suggestion I would offer, more so if it's that easy to run...

 

OK, some of my questions have been answered...guess I type too slow.

 

Hybrids don't burn one or the other. They almost always burn using the CAT (whenever the stove is hot enough, which is most of the time), and sometimes also burn the secondary's in addition to the CAT. When the secondary's are burning, the CAT is also still burning.... that is how they get the emissions so clean, and efficiency very high.

 

That is my concern over having to utilize a damper. Although we have one in the single wall as a backup when you get winds over 30 mph, since I have rebuilt the fireview and tightened things up on it even more, adding a different chimney cap, I am able to control it solely by the air control and split size loading. I have a 6" insulated liner in a center brick chimney probably about 26 feet total including the single wall connector pipe.

Wife doesn't like the looks of the ideal and love the progress a lot more.

I think if you merged two fireviews together, front and side load door and purely cat mode you'd have the perfect stove.

 

Ideal steel owner here. This stove will do what you need. I've already run this stove with the primary air control fully closed on a fresh load with no exiting smoke. I mean it has that much control that you can suck this thing down to zero and go into a deep messy cat burn. The window gets so black you can't see through it when you do that. I prefer not to run that way, but you would have that option if needed.

 

Whats your chimney setup JA600L?

 

We are back to the PH after a winter with the beta IS. I prefer the PH in this weather due to coal management - the PH will dispose of them much easier than the IS, allowing you to fill it to the gills again, sooner, so more time spent with a hotter stove. Interior insulated 32' chimney. Both stoves have awesome ash pans. The PH is beautiful but not as frilly as the Fireview, and the IS is more rugged-handsome. I would not hesitate to have the IS as a focal point.

It took us nearly a month of burning the PH this fall to recover our full level of comfort with running the PH air control after being spoiled by the IS. As far as air control in the cold weather, neither stove has given us issues. The IS is more precise and, more importantly, can slow down a full load that is a bit too hot. The PH has always stopped getting hotter when we ask, but when it is hot it will not slow back down for us until we've burned an hour or so.

I'm not sure if my wood is a little sub-par this fall, or if the rebuild of the PH that Woodstock did in the summer of 2013 changed its burn characteristics, but we are very seldom getting over 550 degree stovetop, whereas we previously had to be careful to not go over 650.

 

550?? I'm not sure my PH has ever hit a top temp of 550. I've hit 500 a few times in 3 years,, but that is not normally how this stove runs. Mine PH is normally between 300 and 400, 425 to 450 when running full blast with a bunch of small splits or really dry pine and cedar or something. It just loves cruising at 325 or 350, but it delivers tons of heat at those temps.

 

Double wall stove pipe going into an outside chimney lined with 25 ft stainless steel liner.

 

In this weather and this house, a 400 degree stovetop means someone was slacking. I am envious of a house that doesn't need a 550 degree PH, but it is designed to do this day after day.

Here she is, climbing back up past 450, with flue probe at 400.

 

I have to keep a steamer pot on top the stove so the cats don't jump on it like you do flame, had a bad incident last year! I generally need a 500 degree stove top when its below ten degrees here too.

If I convince the wife to allow me to put a stove back in the dining room I'd be able to add another stove back in.

I've been supplementing the fireview by burning corn or pellets, but it gets kind of old. I hope to be able to get away from burning so much corn.

 

And a few minutes later, still below 500, but a lot of heat off the front with active secondaries, ...


Both the IS and PH can do this. The PH throws a bit more heat off the front on the high end, the IS excels at the mid to lower range.

 

Wish I could just hook it up to my stack for a one day trial, tomorrow or Wednesday would be perfect. 5 to -16 for a low with 30 mph winds.

We are gun shy of stoves that runaway from our stove prior to a woodstock.

From doing a bunch of reading and research it seems the IS is a lot less prone to backpuffing on low air settings over the progress?