Progress Hybrid , closed off air feed

yes, I agree

 

can the probe handle the heat?

 

Of course, that's what it is made for.

After seeing a picture of another stove with a CAT (think it was the cape code?) where you could actually see the cat, I was thinking about how Woodstock could design or make a retrofit "window" to be able to see the cat. How about putting a 6" by 3" peice of high temp glass inlayed into the cooktop, right over the CAT? So if you ever wanted to see your CAT, just pick up the center stone as if you were going to use the cooktop, and whallah! You can see the exhaust side of the cat and see what it looks like (prolly glowing bright orange). They make glass which is bullet proof and heat proof, so it should be possible. Just integrate the "CAT window" into the cooktop. It would also very likley have a secondary really cool purpose that would end up being very sought after. It would make a Super HIGH HEAT cooking burner, just like the new infrared ranges you can buy for your kitchen. You turn them on and a super hot infrared light shines through a piece of glass to heat your pot. Woodstock could do the same thing, using the CAT heat and "infrared light". You could WOK cook and such.....

What do you think Woodstock?

 

Is their a way to block off just the air to the secondary burner and not the cat?

 

I still think a cat-only version of the Progress would be awesome.

 

I was following a thread on the other site about cat probes, and one of the main topics was about probe failures at high temps. So regardless of whether they are made for it, failures can happen.

 

I don't think you would get 1/2 the heat output that way on hot burns. So you would end up with a stove that works great for the shoulder seasons (long, slow, low heat burns), but would not offer a fast/hot burn for the real cold days. This is one thing the BK stoves are good for, they offer the ability to throw very little heat for a long time, or blast a bunch of heat like the rest of us for a normal length of time. They don't however blast alot of heat, for a very long time as many would have you believe. I experienced this personally with my neighbor late last winter. I can't explain exactly why, and the bk guys will claim blastphomy and all, but the king seemed to burn alot more wood for the same amount of heat output, when burning hot. I can only guess the "extra heat on the PH was from the secondaries?? The PH secondaries create a crap load of heat when burning, where does that extra "gas+oxygen" energy go in the bk? Some may burn in the cat, but some may not. What the PH can't do that the bk i able to do is, regulate that really slow smoldering burn for a much longer time.

As is, when you close the air off 100% on the PH, I think we are almost completely shutting down the secondary air baffle. There may be a small amount of air that gets thru there, but it does very little if anything to the burn. If I shut my air down 100%, my flames are out in 30 to 60 seconds, the stove is really starved for air.

One thing I have never tried, I would like to see if anyone else has ever tried on the PH; On a not so cold day(40's) , load the stove 100%. One of thos big beefy loads filling all gaps as you see the bk guys do wth big splits, top to bottom, side to side, so there is very little air room left. Shut the stove down quickly (don't let it get burning very much), and see what happends. I suppose you may very well get a good long slow burn 24+ hours as long as it doesn't get to hot and take off with secondaries burning. The problem I would see is (in my case/setup), the splits would eventially outgass enough to fill the box with gas and oxygen, and I would get some puffs in the box most likely.

 

Failure is NOT option!!

Well of course failures "can" happen. But if designed and built properly for the scenario (1500+ degree's or whatever the cats burn at), they should last. Anyway, I like my "window" idea better!

 

So why not block the secondary air for shoulder season then open it up for when you're needing max BTUs ? Presuming that it can be done relatively easily. Then you would truly have the best of all three worlds.

 

Your kinda already doing that when you close the air down 100%. That was my point.

 

I thought that it "switched" automatically between cat air and secondary..... causing the shorter burns even if not wanted.

I've come around to possibly wanting a cat or hybrid stove. But I'm uneasy about the idea of shutting the bypass quickly after a reload. Is it just the ceramic cats that this is hard on?

 

There is no "switching" going on in the PH. You have 2 controls, the bypass which is open or closed, and the air damper which goes from full closed (although still lets a just a bit of air in of course) to fully open (lots of air). The air control lever controls the amount of air let into the front of the stove AND to the secondaires. So as you open it up, you let more air/oxygen get to both. As you close it down, you lessen the amount of air/oxy to both. So if you close the air completely, very little air gets to either. An again, in my if there is a good draft (aka cold out), and I close it100%, this will choke the fire out, but every once in a while enough gas will build up, mi with a little oxy and the firebox will light up with whatIcall a "puff", and then go out after 20 or 30 seconds. On mild days like today, when it is mid 40+ out, I can shut the air down 100% and get a 16 to 24 hour burn depending on the wood, with very little heat output. It just smolders the wood, and barely stays hot enough to keep the cat going (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't). The bigger th chunks/splits, the slower and longer it will burn.

So most of the time, I shut the air down 100%, and then just crack it open about the smallest amount possible (just a smidge on the handle). This lets enough air for the fire to barely whisper and smolder, the CAT to stay lit, and a nice long burn with lots of heat. When I do this I am basically letting the chimney draft control the fire. If it gets cold out, I get a stronger draft and the fire picks up a bit with a few seconaries, and much more heat output. If it gets or stays warm out, there is not a strong draft and the fire burns slow and longer. So the stove almost manages itself really. The nice thing is, you still have full control, and can make it a blast furnace in short order. Simply lift the air handle to about 1/2 way open, and you will have a rager in 1 minute! Shut it back down, and the fire will go out in less than 1 minute.

As long as the temp in the stove is hot enough, your not doing any damage to the CAT at all. When I say I shut it down quickly, I'm talking after a few minutes when all the "cold" air in the box is gone/heated. Your just not waiting for all the wood to get burning/char as some people suggest you should do. If your doing a cold start, that's a different story. Then I wait 10 or 15 minutes to get the fire going and get the stove up to proper temp. I use the Woodstock suppllied surface temp gauge on my pipe about 8" above the stove. It has a line/color change on it (black to grey) at 260 degree's, which means the flue gasses are above 500 (double the reading for internal temps), so when it htis the line, jsut flip th bypass and start shutting the air down. I shut it down ussally in 2 steps: Flip bypass and lower air to 1/2 way, wait 2 minutes or so, and shut air down 90 or 95% (just cracked). Done, nothing to it.

 

Oh, I should add to the above post that ALL the air and exhaust in the firebox then passes thru the CAT when the bypass is closed, regardless of how the air is set. That is where you get the extra heat, and lower emmisions. I anything is left in the exhaust, it gets burned by the cat.

 

Seems to work fine for the Fireview.

 

Charley, what would you say the heat output difference is between the Fireview and PH with a similar load of wood?

 

Twice the heat output of the Fireview.... Especially if you have secondaries going.. I think people and I kind of did too, thought the PH was a close cousin to the Fireview as far as a slow cat burn.. Not the deal.. The PH is a very different stove.. Yes at times I can go an hour with no flames, but eventually the wood gases off into secondaries... The thing is I needed more heat and boy do I have it... No need to trade this one back in.. That's what I wanted and that's what I have , plenty of heat...even burning the stove shut right down... I agree , big wood will rock in this stove...

I also see the same thing 400-500 degrees on the internal flue gases and then shut things down... Once in a while I just take a soft brush and hit the screen on the top before I load some wood.. After a month of just learning about the stove I took the cat out figuring I had maybe burned too low at times and clogged it up,,, it had no blockage at all . It looked great. Just tapped it lightly with the wood handle on my paint brush and then brushed both sides lightly.. Good to go. All in all I love the stove, especially that big ash pan. Sometimes I think it must be full, but see it's only about half full... Big Ash pan is definitely nice.. I think 4 full loads would almost fill a 5 gallon pail, that's how big the pan his... That was a good move by Woodstock.. Any questions

 

Yes the PH definitely puts out more heat At least the dogs think so ....

 

I really wish I could figure out if the Progress would meet my needs.

 

It is a power house of a heater, plus at over 700lbs,, that weight holds the heat like a deep cycle battery.. I've never been cold here on just coals.. The biggest thing, I haven't run my Esse half us much for heat this year... The PH can take care of the whole house now over the Fireview. So now when both stoves are going I can keep less wood in each stove and the farmhouse stays 74-76 on a non pushing cruise of the wood stoves. The PH is without a serious heating stove.. I have had the stove room at 82 at times.. This all with the draft just cracked.. Stove tops temps have never been over 500.. I can't imagine 600! BB the PH might just be your stove after all.. Wish I was close you could hang out and see for yourself what you think... It's a really nice stove all in all.... I would buy it again.. and I really like the way it looks... I hope you can find what you need.. I'm thinking a stone stove would keep you buffered with heat until you got around to reloading... What a nice place you have though!
Charlie

 

And there you have it.

Charley, regarding raking; I have found it best to rake ALL the coals and ash to the front of the stove on reload. This way I can place a few big splits on the floor in the back, with no hot coals under them. Then a split directly onto the hot coals in front. This way only the front lights up and starts burning. I find I gate longer burns this way. The rear splits don't light up till later in the burn.