Hardwood Floors

So, I've been shopping, researching, pondering, asking, and generally wearing myself out researching hardwood floors over the past week. I'm now more confused than when I started.

I don't who to believe, how to tell good stuff from junk, if I should go with solid over engineered, or what.

Looking for something with a lot of character, and will take a lot of abuse from kids and a dog (although it isn't in the house much). Love the look of natural hickory. Prefinished is a must.

Anyone have actual experiences that might point me in the right direction?

 

Well, I've had real Oak floors that hold up well when finished properly.
One of my BILs has an "engineered" floor. He's not a completely happy camper, because even though the joints are tighter than a cheapskate's wallet, if something is spilled, water gets in. This is even if it's cleaned quickly.
He got that stuff very inexpensively from Menard's. I think it had a 15 year warranty.

 

We have the Bruce Oak Hardwood floors and the dog scratches the fuk out of them.

 

Howdy: I redid my floors with hardwood and conducted an exhaustive review of available brands, species etc. Here we go:

1. Your subfloor must be either plywood or OSB. If you have carpet, pull it up in a discreet corner and take a look. Plywood and OSB are obvious. If you have particleboard, it will look like oatmeal and that is a deal-killer for hardwood strip flooring as it will not hold a flooring staple. Being Captain Overkill, I had particleboard, ripped up 1200 square feet of it and replaced it with 3/4 plywood that was secured to the joists with PL Premium and screws. The house went from being a wobbly, squeaking POS to a tank. This process was expensive and laborious.
2. If you have plywood or OSB, groovy. There are multiple species of wood which have different long-term wear characteristics. Hickory is a great choice as it rates high on the JANKA scale. While very popular, ash, maple and red oak will get tagged pretty hard by a dog. There are some exotics like Brazillian cherry, however, that species will darken when exposed to sunlight and you will see stupid-looking outlines of where throw rugs, table legs etc were.
3. The price per square foot of hardwood can be misleading. 2.25 inch strip costs the least, however, it is the most difficult and time-consuming to install. Is this a DIY job or are you hiring a contractor? If you are hiring a contractor, it can actually cost less to go with 3 or 4-inch planks, even though their cost per square foot is higher than 2.25 inch.
4. As far as brands, Mullican, Sheoga and Somerset are top notch. As noted above, Bruce hardwoods have had issues, particularly with twisted and bowed planks. Stay away from Lumber Liquidators like the plague.
5. If you need absolute durability, Pergo Select is as tough as tank armor. I have hardwood in the upstairs and Pergo Select in the sunroom and an on-grade rec room. The Pergo looks the same today as when it was installed in 2006.
6. There is a third option called Engineered Flooring. This is a wide-plank type of floor that is built with a layer of finish wood on top (oak, hickory, brazilian cherry etc), and then cris-cross layers of plywood underneath. When installed, you see real hardwood, and it can be refinished when the surface gets scrated, dented etc. Engineered wood can be floated like Pergo, so if your subfloors are particleboard, that is not an issue.

Hindsight being 20/20, I would have done Pergo through the whole house. It is maintenance-free, cleans up with simple sweeping and mopping, and can take more punishment than you will ever dish out short of a tornado.

 

DIY...I've done it before and have an experienced friend helping. Subfloor is solid TG slanted at 45 with 3/8 ply on top.

 

If you do it yourself hire someone to do the sanding. Don't ask me how I know!
Gary

 

This is an excellent response.

 

Somerset has a 5" hickory that is barely in our price range. If this is quality material I wouldn't mind spending at our budget limit.

 

I don't know anything about the different wood materials they use nowadays, but I refinished my oak floors when I remodeled the stove room last winter. One thing I can tell you about finishing is, don't use the floor urethane that they sell at home depot. I did the research and found out that there are a few different brands that pros use and ended up buying a 2 part water based urethane called Bona Traffic. After almost a year, it doesn't look any different than the day I put it down. We have 2 small dogs with clicky claws and they haven't left a scratch that I can see. This stuff is tough as nails and it looks great. Another thing to keep in mind is that gloss will show scratches more than satin. We went with satin because we like the natural look and the ability to withstand scratching is a bonus. The bona traffic was kind of expensive, but well worth it.

 

We have installed many wood floors over 25+ years in the residential and light commercial construction business.
A few observations: never nail any hardwood or engineered over OSB unless it is an engineered Strand Board as the subfloor like Advantech.
An engineered floor can be refinished more than once if the wear layer in thick enough. A good floor sander only takes about a 1/16" cut when refinishing.... of course if the dents, scratches can be removed with that 1/16".
I have an engineered product that has a 3/8" wear layer. Oak and Alder in the main living areas, walnut and American Cherry in the bedrooms. All 3 1/2" and 4" engineered and nailed.
Over in floor heat the best is an engineered product - nailed or floating. However, I believe that 3 1/2" to 4" width would be maximum.
Without in floor heat wider flooring is best nailed.
Solid hardwood is well..... the best in most situations. Hardness according to the JANKA scale is pretty accurate.
A wood floor is a lifetime floor. I had maple in my house of 25 years and refinished at 23 years.... everyone thru the house remarked how nice the maple looked. And in 1991 when I installed it people asked why I wanted my house to look like a gymnasium. I bought maple because it was cheap at the time and it was all I could afford. It aged to that beautiful yellow glow and in the woods where the house was located the feeling was very warm.
Wood floors are warm and inviting. If your considering a wood floor there are many small family operated sawmills that produce some beautiful products.
Now you need to look a little harder but they are out there.
And I do agree to stay away from Lumber Liqui----tors . The good stuff that they sell is no deal.

 

Some things to consider. Kids. Dogs. Cats. Entryways. Comfort factor. Etc.

My brother is in the hardwood flooring business. He installs, refinishes, builds staircases, does molding refishing, finish carpentry, etc., etc. I have worked a few jobs with him over the years.

When I did my house over a decade ago I was over budget and watching every dime. I ended up buying laminate flooring. Don't get me wrong. I would have preferred to hire my brother to install real hardwood. But I had many, many factors going into it. First, money. Second, traffic. Third, we wanted something that was easy and quick to put in. The laminate still looks great after 11 years. In the kitchen/dining room. And near the rear door/entry way. Both heavy traffic areas.

The reason I mentioned kids above is if you have little, little ones, hardwood floors are well, hard. When they fall. I like carpet in my living room. Gives you something comfy to lay on and play on. Just some things to think about. It is interesting that in a lot of homes, and I LOVE hardwood floors. You see certain rooms in many homes that after they put beautiful hardwood floors in them, they bring in an area rug for the comfort. Now much of the hardwood is covered. And they were very expensive to install.

Keep us up to date on what you are thinking.

 

Here is the JANKA scale. Note that hickory is the hardest domestic flooring. There are exotics which are tougher, however, they tend to be very dark woods (IPE). Brazilian cherry will start off with a golden or salmon colored hew and then turn almost black when it is exposed to sunlight. Prefinished Somerset 5" hickory is an excellent choice. My suggestion would be to try and get a few samples from the dealer before you buy. The reason I say this is that wide planks will tend to have more color variation and can have knots in them. The flooring should have a Grade, which will be either Clear, Select or Common/Natural. Clear woods will be the most expensive, will have the most uniform color and fewest imperfections such as knots. Common grade will be less expensive, but have the most imperfections. Mind you, "imperfections" is relative and does not imply that the wood is inferior or flawed. Some folks want to see knots and color variations in the wood, some folks want a uniform color across the entire floor.

For installation, I suggest that you have a quality miter saw with a stand. If this is a DIY job that will be done over time, it is not unreasonable to actually buy your own flooring stapler; Bostich makes a very good one. Renting a stapler at $50.00 a day can quickly add up to the cost of buying one, and when you are done, sell it and get money back. Pick a quality moisture barrier-some guys use red rosin paper, but I went with roofing felt based on the recommendation of a pro flooring guy. make sure you have a pull bar to be able to snug your end cuts in. Learn all about racking the floor in advance, and how you will be butting up against walls. Some people leave teh base molding in place and then put strips of quarter-round over the ends to hide the gap. I removed all the base molding, cut a horizontal strip out of the drywall all the way around, and was able to have the flooring sit under the drywall. You need to leave a gap between the flooring edges and the wall as flooring expands and contracts based on humidity and temperature. After taking delivery, the flooring must sit in the actual room where it will be installed for three days as to come up to temperature.

While it may seem counterintuitive, the job will actually go faster if you have your miter saw in your work area; in this fashion, you won't be walking outside all the time for cuts. When done, yes, there will be a sawdust disaster, but you'll clean up very quickly with a shop vac. Take your time, have fun, and know that when you are done, it will be STUNNING.

 

I'll keep my comments plain and simple. We have 2 dogs and just ourselves at the house now. I installed maple on the upstairs floors about 8 years ago and the dogs have left their mark. My wife likes it , she says it's character, I don't like it, I think it's a lot of claw marks that looks ugly.
When it came time to do the downstairs I spent more time doing research and talking to guys in my field ( construction).
I ended up using bamboo. The wood doesn't have a typical bamboo grain look because of the way it's manufactured but along with the hard poly finish and the wood itself I have had no problems with the dogs claws downstairs.
It's 1/2" prefinished in multiple sizes and is locking type edges. I did my entire 1st floor and to me it was worth the investment.

 

Something else I forgot to mention. Along the lines of what golf66 mentioned about allowing floor to acclimate to temperature. If installing a new hardwood floor that is unfinished keep in mind that pre-finished flooring is different from a new hardwood floor that is unfinished. Another important thing with unfinished, new hardwood is that the moisture content be correct at time of installation. Humidity and the moisture content of the wood need to be considered.

 

golf66;
Like Clint Eastwood says as Dirty Harry, "nothin like a good piece of Hickory" lol

 

I have all the tools I need. I have a pretty decent mitre saw (Dewalt) and table saw (Delta) running good Freud blades. My "experienced helper" has a pneumatic flooring stapler and I have a brad and finish nailer for the edges and trim work. Rubber mallets, jamb saws, pull bars, etc, are all covered between the two of us.

I've already pulled all the baseboard trim. It is pretty dated and beat up and I didn't see the point in trying to keep it.

There is already a layer of black roofing felt sandwiched between the solid tongue and groove subfloor and the plywood sitting on top of it, but I'll add another directly under the hardwood.

As far as dogs go, my dog comes in the house to sleep. He has a corner that sleeps in, and will only be on a very small portion of the hardwood. I'm a dog lover, but not an inside dog lover. After this dog, there won't be another in the house. I'm sure the kids will kids will leave their mark on the floor more than the dog and I'm OK with that.

As far as the floor goes, the more character the better. I like knots, spalts, variation, etc. I also want something that fits this house, and an exotic hardwood would look out of place.

 

Entire 1st floor 4 inch Hickory approx. 2300 sq ft. these are actually seconds which I bought from the mill for $1 sq ft. there are imperfections in the floor and some knots, but we look at it as character. 8 years a St Bernard and Rotti and they still look like they were just installed.

 

That's the look we like. Very, very nice.