Production Woodstock IS

I asked WS and they replied they were just to busy with production right now to be able to work with a supplier for a correct length probe right now. So, they added the port for a probe, good, but as of yet have no probe for the port. I would like to see a solution soon...my build date was last week.

 

Brian,
Just want to confirm. In post #692 you said, "...The wood stove is on the first floor (ground level, more or less) but the chimney starts in the basement."
So it sounds like you have a full single-story of stagnant, cool or possibly cold flu air below the thimble. Are you certain there are no leaks in that part of the flu that could be pulling air into the flu below the thimble? Like for example something simple like the clean-out door leaking air? Even if the flu is tight below the thimble you still have a substantial column of cool or cold air between the thimble and the bottom of the flu. That would definitely have an effect on the draft. It would be interesting to find some simple and inexpensive way to effectively raise the floor of your flu and eliminate the cool column of flu air below the thimble. The 8" square clay liner does in fact have a 60% larger cubic measurement compared to a 6" round - it's true. However, I'm running my Ideal Steel into a 11" x 15" clay tile flue and she burns great. Historically I had to "tighten" my flue connection set-up as I initially had air leaks that were weakening the draft. Is the chimney outside the envelope of the house or within it?

 

....Correction 8" square has a 40% larger cubic measurement over a 6" round.

 

Four inches would put the end of the probe well over the combustor. A little longer would be better but not necessary. I do not believe 2 1/2" would really be long enough to get over the hottest part of the combustor.

Brian

 

8" square is more than 100% larger than 6" round. 6" round is just under 30 square inches, 8" square is 64 square inches. And I am not able to warm it nearly as well as a 6" insulated metal flue would warm.

Brian

 

OK, now you are backing me into the proverbial corner so I have to come clean (kidding but there is more to the chimney).

I live in a 2 story house with a cement block / clay flue lined chimney from the cellar floor to above the roof peak. The chimney is open at the top. Are there any leaks in the basement.... yep, especially where the boiler thimble enters the chimney. You got me- my chimney is compromised with the oil- fired boiler feeding it 'pass through' air even when the boiler is not running. Now before anybody goes nuts about this, let me state a several things (and then you can all go nuts ).

1) The boiler is not used. It is able to be used but is switched off as are all circulators. The boiler is NOT used for DHW, there is an electric hot water heater for that (no NG where I live and propane is ridiculous in price here in New England).
2) An oil fired device and a wood fired device sharing a common flue DID meet code when it was all installed. It was inspected and passed by the local F.D.
3) In the olden days, both devices DID run at the same time and both properly vented: I have both smoke as well as CO detectors on all floors and nothing has ever gone off that was not the result of my own actions (loading the stove, lighting the stove, etc.). The CO detectors have never gone off.
4) With the boiler firing in the cellar, and the thimble for the woodstove open, the draft is still positive.
5) The boiler has been down for years now and I will not run it this year either, with the single exception of my being away for more than a day at which point the wood stove would NOT be running anyway.
6) The two previous stoves both ran and drafted with ease before the I.S. was installed. I am now assuming that the I.S. has a more stringent requirement for flue draft.
7) I maintain a clean chimney and inspect it often. I can inspect as well as clean it from the cellar and do so as needed regardless of time of year. That said, the chimney has not needed cleaning in two years other than to shovel out a bit of crumbly / dusty stuff at the cleanout door in the bottom.

And finally: this coming spring, I am going to replace the boiler, move it across the cellar and install a Class A chimney inside a chase [outside the house proper] for that item alone. My intention at this time is to also install a 6" S.S. liner in the chimney currently in the house but either way, the current chimney will be dedicated to the first floor woodburner alone and the lower thimble closed off permanently.

I could improve the current situation but installing a 'non static draft' (whatever the correct term is for them) burner in the current boiler and that would stop the stand- by accidental draft. But as I said, a new boiler / burner / chimney is going in next year so it seems a wasteful step.

Honest fellas', I did not expect this new stove to have significantly different draft requirements than my other stoves. Again, not blaming the I.S. specifically or saying it is at fault here but the older style stoves were a lot easier to flow air through.

Brian

 

It doesn't sound like you're looking for absolution for your confessional moment, and I couldn't provide it anyway. I have a similar setup.

 

Confession is good for the soul....,

 

A couple of requirements for the cat probe for the IS: doesn't the cat actually LIFT up a bit when you disengage it? The probe would have to be angled upward (or bent) to clear the cat during sled open/close action. Also, where the probe would go under the sled rod with the handle down is a pretty small space - if the sled rod lays on the probe shaft ( with cat engaged) the sled rod would steal away the probe's heat before it got to the meter. Or do I misunderstand how a mechanical probe works?

 

I think that was my next question, thanks for that fox9988 .

Temps here are warming up, I might let the stove run out and open the hood tomorrow afternoon and measure.

 

ALL good questions Gark . I may use a piece of copper wire and experiment a bit tomorrow.

 

whalen , just an FYI. WS is required to put the probe port in but not required to provide a catalyst thermo to go with it. From what I see so far, WS may have been behind in this part of production and where it isn't a critical part it was backshelfed for now.

 

IMO, no cat stove should be sold without a cat probe

 

The probe needs to be bent slightly so that the tip does not face straight forward but slightly up; this prevents it from getting hooked on the honeycomb of the combustor. If my stove cools down enough overnight I will open the top plate and take some photos of how my probe is installed and how the sled / combustor / heat radiator move over and around it.

Brian

 

Yes, the placement is somewhat critical in that the probe cannot touch the cat (would damage some cat cells and <may> hang up the movement of the sled) and should not drag against the radiator either- as you say it will dilute the real temp. readings and again wear the probe out after a fashion. A probe bent slightly can fit right into the available space and have the sled, cat. and radiator move around it.

Another option if using a thermocouple rather than a mechanical thermometer would be to bend the thermocouple around from the front / inside of the stove. My thermocouple wires actual exit the top of the firebox on the left hand side. Again, I will snap a couple of photos if I can tomorrow provided I catch the stove at a cool enough stage.

Brian

 

Well, just trying to explain my specific setup and its limitations. Sometimes on forums, groups of folks take a bit of a 'gang view' and pronounce that someone is behaving or doing something so horrible that the world just might stop rotating. I just wanted to explain that while my chimney is not ideal, I do not believe it is inherently unsafe either if operated reasonably and looked after (read: maintained).

I suspect a lot of us are using things that are grandfathered, never quite did meet code, are somewhat shabby but would also like to think that the great majority of people are not doing things that are actually unsafe.

Brian

 

Could be but I think a S.S. liner would be better for my chimney.....

Brian

 

Brian,
Once this catalyst probe is figured out, is it your opinion that the thermometer would be 'fixed' into it's position because of the bent probe shaft? Not that it matters to me, once it's in place and working it really doesn't need to come out unless it needs to be replaced or for maintenance etc..

 

Not really- the probe will need a very slight bend 'up' after it passes under the sled linkage rod but not enough to anchor it really. It would be no problem to take it out.

Brian

 

Didn't mean to make it seem like I was encouraging the torches and ropes (not yet anyway) regarding anyone's set-up. Just offering a helping hand to a fellow IS owner.
Actually, considering that I'm running my IS into an oversized flu and doing it "all-wrong"; the IS performs admirably. I guess it's kudos once again to the designers. In my chimney (well insulated), if I installed a 6" round SS liner - I could probably open a blacksmith's shop.....