WS Ideal Steel or BK Ashford for me?

BridgerBurner , I know this is the dressed down shop model but you might be able to see the soapstone on the ashlip in front. I think this stove will be a side loader only, the glass front will be fixed. No ideas on options or anything just yet, I'm sure its way too early for that.

 

Nice start, good to see they are looking forward with an already popular design. Thanks a bunch.

 

Try the BK dealer in Boulder. No inventory but I think the price will be better. One thing no one has mentioned yet is both these stoves have a 4 to 8 week lead time.

 

Thanks, Looks like the cold just keep going south.

 

From scratch, I'd go I.S. in a heartbeat. I love my BKK, but I truly believe the I.S. has an edge. It may not go the distance compared to a BK, in terms of overall burn time, but it should be fine in actual use. My vote is- Ideal Steel.

 

The lead time is a non issue as my order won't go in until summer anyway. I'd order now if there was to be a price increase, but the install won't be until next fall. Time to gather wood for now. If there are no new intro's, I'll be ordering an ideal steel. I'd not pay more for the Ashford, and even then the decision would be to go with a better fire show vs an exterior appearance. This is my thoughts for now. Thank you all for your input, this site is a tremendous resource, one I'll be continuing to gather knowledge from. Namaste

 

Just a suggestion, with the time you have before needing to place an order or find a stove in a shop or box store, continue to do your research. I can tell you the IS is a fine steel stove that has all the bells and whistles of a state of the art hybrid. But there are others with fine reputations that have good looks in both cast and steel.
I spent the entire burn season last year picking the brains out of the IS beta testers and with every answer they gave was just one more reason why I should go with this particular hybrid.

Do the same thing this winter, read the threads on particular stoves and ask a ton if questions.

And for what it's worth, the secondaries on the IS give off an incredible light show as you mentioned before. Hues of circular blues and yellows. The secondaries top plate is stainless steel and has many 3/8" holes that combust the unburnt gases at a higher temperature. The amazing part is the secondary flames dance downward from the plate to the splits. I believe the thread "IS production" has some video of this. Cool stuff.

 

I can't vouch for IS burn times. I can tell you BK burn times are for real.
When I want a secondary show from my BK I just turn the air up a little and bam, there it is.

You can't go wrong with either stove performance wise. When considering, keep in mind looks and personal preference. A stove is like a piece of furniture. You will probably have it for a long time.
I love the looks of the PH, the IS...not so much.
My princess on the other hand looks like a black washing machine, but my wife doesn't care and I can go 24 hours between "loads of laundry"

 

The IS has really good burn times. On low, it seems like 20+ hours is possible with the right wood. 15 hours seems more in line with what can be expected on a low heat setting. Which is still very good.

One factor to consider is that the Ashford has a blower option and the IS does not. If you have a layout that allows for good heat movement, a blower may not be needed. If you have a more challenging layout, a blower could help move the heat around.

Also, the IS is a larger stove than the Ashford by about a half a cubic foot.

 

You've gotten some good feedback on your original questions. I would just throw out the idea that as there is no magic to burning wood, and modern stoves are more alike than they are different (in my opinion anyway), performance should be similar across different brands of a similar size and material.

There are other differences though that are usually not mentioned that I think are important, or at least they were to me when using wood stoves. Things like: how much does a catalytic combustor cost because they do need to be changed often enough that the price becomes important in owning a stove for, say, 10 or more years. How easy is it to change the combustor; are there bolts that are likely to freeze and cause a difficult time, a lot of work and perhaps the use of more than a few bad words? How rugged are the stove's internals (Easy Boys!), especially things like the air tubes and any firebox insulation that are likely to deteriorate over time- the two things to consider are 1) how 'tough' are they in the first place and 2) how fully can they be replaced (will warped, deteriorated pieces of steel be left in the stove or are all those parts readily / afford-ably replaceable)? How about the grate and ash pan system- I find stoves with a grate and a sealed ashbox far easier to use than the ones with a plugged hole over the ash pan. How are the mechanics of the stove- the handles, operating rods, etc., going to stand up over time? As they do wear, are they easy to adjust or replace?

For those people who light an occasional fire none of those things are really very important. But for those of us who are using our stoves 24/7, all winter long and depending on them, these little items are important because we have to deal with these issues long after the initial purchase. A stove that is rugged, simple and direct in construction, and parts are fully replaceable and inexpensive will be a pleasure to use years down the road while one that is not will continue to torture a user forever. This was one of my main reasons for choosing an Ideal Steel over a Progress Hybrid: I believe the I.S. is a tougher, simpler stove that can be kept in top shape easier and with less cost for 10, 20 years.

This is almost never discussed it seems but I think everyone should consider these things before buying something that really will take a lot of your time and attention for a long time.

Brian

 

Will do, and thanks again for the responses, nice to be able to count on feedback from this community.

 

15 dependable hours should be more than enough, though I have no experience heating with wood I'd imagine loading in the evening and again in the morning. Actually the IS may be better as it has a shorter burn time as the box will accept a good full load every 12 hours. With longer burn times the sleep/wake cycle of loading wood would be interrupted awkwardly perhaps. And perhaps not.

 

Superb advice Brian. Honestly six months ago I'd have bought a Pacific Energy T5 or T6 for the above reason, plus the outstanding looks! But the continuing education I've received off this site along with some soul searching about how I'd like to maximize the experience guided me away from non cat/hybrid and directly into the arms of the two aforementioned stoves laps. Right now if I had to send the check, it would be to Woodstock for the Ideal Steel. I'm going to call them and see if their planning on a price increase, new stove releases, etc. Otherwise come mid summer the check will go out. It seems a pity that Woodstock doesn't follow the lead other have very successfully made to wrapping an existing stove with cast iron. PE did it with the Super 27, and marketed the Alderlea series. Jotul does it, and so on and so forth. Imagine how simple it would be to wrap the IS vs develop a completely new stove from the ground up. Why mess with success, just wrap in a $400 jacket, at which point your still under the price point of the BK Ashford with a stove that performs more or less the same that would satisfy all the women and most men out there. I respect Woodstock wholeheartedly for innovation from design to distribution, but man what I winner that would be.

 

Thanks. Mostly it comes from years of handling / storing / burning wood and dealing with the ashes. And knowing what the stove will look like on the inside after the accelerated corrosion, general warping and so forth. There are quite a few stoves out there that make something like changing or even cleaning the combustor a nightmare, especially when the welded- in studs that hold the combustor in place break off. A lot of older cast iron stoves have a surprising number of plates, deflectors and general parts inside them and it is really expensive or outright impossible to rebuild them after several years of burning wood in them.

My suggestion would be to try and take the best possible look inside the stoves you are interested in. Also look at the parts fiche / list if at all possible. Imagine all the internal parts warped even 1/8" after a few years and think of how difficult it will be to refurbish such a stove if it is even possible. My brother had a very old Vermont Castings (made in the 70's, and actually IN Vermont) and while a nice design initially, eventually all the internal plates warped enough so nothing fit together properly anymore. Even if parts were available, it would have been cost prohibitive to rebuild that stove.

One of the big points of an Ideal Steel to me was the ease in servicing the combustor; lift the lid and it is right there under a steel plate. There is not a single fastener used anywhere in the combustor area (the sled) so no fasteners can freeze, break or even bind and make the job go slowly. Clog a combustor with ash? With the I.S. you can have the combustor in your hand in less than 30 seconds and get to it entirely from the outside.

Brian

 

Anyone know if it's difficult to clean/replace the combuster in the BK ashford?

 

I have done that with PE and Jotul when it was getting down to a decision on one or the other. It is then when I found that with the Jotul the firebricks in the back were narrower than elsewhere. I imagined that when loading the stove one would always be banging those bricks, not to mention the reduction in load size. Also noticed that they ramp the secondaries so that the full height could not be utilized. Fabulous looking stove though. The PE stoves are very nicely built, have a great reputation, and appear to be simple to service. I'm starting to get a handle on things here, just jonesing for a stove now... haha. It's 0 degrees in Bozeman right now, the furnace hasn't stopped running and we're still cold. We're having visions of burning firewood in our heads....

 

Welcome, BB. So the house is 1800 for the two upper levels, plus 600 in the basement? Will the stove go in the basement? Despite living in close proximity to glaciers , with the house as tight and well-insulated as it sounds you may well be able to go smaller than usual with the stove. Both the IS and BKs are easy to dial up or down and that will also be important in a tight house. Burn times will be plenty for you, even on softwoods, because you'll seldom need to run the stove very hot. The new WS Franklin may even be able to handle that place. I believe it's a bit bigger than the Fireview. That's the stove I'll be watching, as the IS is too big for this place. Although it can be run very low, I also want something that won't overpower this space, size-wise. I want a welded steel box next time, because most of the maintenance I've done, other than gaskets or cats, has been on leaking seams. BTW, Woodstock parts are some of the most affordable you'll find. The IS, you just lift the lid, slip out the shield and grab the cat.

 

I'm thinking that they will use what they've learned with the IS and apply it to the 211. Still, I would rather wait until the stove has been in production for a year before taking the plunge....don't know if I'll be able to resist, though. I befriend my stoves as well, but don't get too close...you may get 'burned.' Two rooms here, 1000 sq.ft. total, so the IS would be overkill for sure. Another thing, you may have heat rising upstairs to some extent, even if you close the bedroom doors, so you may lose some there. Have you done heat load calculations that will give you a better idea of what will be needed? Not sure how those are done...

 

Looking at the manual, it appears to be the same set up as the King and Princess, so no. It is easily accessible. The only negative is that you must replace the gasket if you pull the cat out, but the gasket shouldn't cost more than $5.

If you treat it right, there really isn't any reason to pull the cat out unless it is to replace the gasket or the cat itself. You have easy access to the front of it, and can access the back thru the flue collar. A simple swipe with a soft brush is all I usually do. Once in a while I will CAREFULLY run the shop vac across the front (as in not actually touching it, but able to suck any fly ash out of the cells).