Progress Hybrid overfire?

I'm about a week out since this happened, so have been debating about whether or not to post about it. Had about 2/3 of a full box with cherry and some really dry elm. Engaged the cat, and later closed off the air intake all the way when it was about 475 degrees. Within an hour it was at about 600, but the real surprise was when it hit around 725-750 within the next hour or so.

I double checked when the stove was really hot, and the air intake had been completely closed off, and the ash pan was closed. The glass was black when it reached it's peak temp - no visible fire. It got warm out so haven't been burning much since, although I did have at least a fire or two that were in a more normal range. Something to be concerned about?

 

Did you have small splits in there, and they all got gassing at once? I would have bypassed if I was concerned. Is 700 the recommended max, like with the Fireview?

 

They were smaller size splits. 700 degrees is the recommended max according to the manual. I disengaged the cat, opened the air intake and then the loading door for a minute or two, and the temperature dropped down to 600 pretty quickly after closing the door again.

It's been twenty plus years since I've run a stove, so I wasn't sure if this kind of thing just happens sometimes with all stoves. Frankly I was surprised mainly because of the many comments I've read about the controllability of the PH. During shoulder season I'd like to be able to keep the fire in the 400-500 degree range when I want it there, which I typically have been able to do.

 

I'm sure Backwoods Savage can give you a helping hand on this one.
I know the mechanics are similar to the IS but my experience with it is so limited right now, sorry

 

Where did you take the temp measurement? Have you pulled the cooktop to look for any damage? See if the CAT is warped? Called WS?

For a low slow burn I usually will close the air down quicker after engaging the CAT. If you wait until it gets hotter it does continue to climb more. I ran the stove pretty hard in the "polar vortex" but never saw it climb that high. Right now I'll give the CAT a few minutes to get hot and then start shutting it down pretty quick.

From my experience with the stove I bet it can take it. But I would talk to WS and look it over real well.

 

Thanks Boiler74. I'm using the gauge provided by Woodstock, which I've placed on the back part of the top of the stove, a few inches away from the pipe. The reason it was at about 475 when I engaged the cat was it was a reload, and the temperature was already that high. If I had waited for it to come down to 300 degrees I'm guessing it would have been way past midnight when I did my last reload.

I'll look it over really well this weekend, and give Woodstock a call. Still interested to hear if anyone else has had this experience with the PH, or if this is just to be expected with wood burning.

My experience when I was a young, dumb kid when I would run our VC stove at night after my parents went to bed was that I would get the thing up to 900 degrees. I wasn't learning proper burning techniques, and have learned a lot on this forum, like the temperature at which cast iron starts to deteriorate.

 

Sean,

If using single wall pipe the manual calls for the thermometer for a top vent to be on the pipe itself about 8-10" up from the flue collar. If rear vented they want it on the cover place that says Progress Hybrid. By your avatar it seems you are top vented so you might want to move the thermometer.

Now, I'm just theorizing here but if your thermometer was on the top closer to the CAT it's would show a higher temp as the CAT really lit off and cooked that smoke. So it might not be the best location to measure the temp. THAT ISN'T TO SAY 725 IS OK. but the fact that the firebox was dark means that the firebox itself wasn't roaring hot like it was getting too much air like it would if the ash pan door was open. I would invest in an IR thermometer for some more accurate measurements and measurements from around the stove.

Call WS and talk to them. They can tell you what to look for. And also remember this round thermometers aren't all that accurate. I have three and they all tend to show a different temp.

Sending you a PM also.

Josh

 

Oh and I don't reload at 475. You'll learn to plan the fires but if it's that hot either stay up or go to bed let it burn. More experienced members may chime in here but I "think" that if you reload in such a hot stove the wood off gasses like crazy making temps really climb quickly.

 

If you load a bunch of small stuff on a hot coal bed, it can all be gassing pretty quickly. Loading on a good coal bed, try bigger splits.

He might tell you to burn wet wood to slow it down....but I doubt it.

 

The only time my Progress ever surged into the upper operating temp range was when I reloaded it on a super hot full bed of coals. It only happened once - and now I make sure to manage my burns so the coal bed has burned down before I fill her up.

 

Thanks for the advice guys. You're helping me ease the transition from being a young, dumb kid to a less dumb, middle aged guy.

 

I'm just getting started with Keystone. I have over a cord of 3-year old wood that's at about 11% and some new seasoned stuff that's closer to 17%. I had a burn almost over fire with the dry stuff. I was able to check it just by shutting the draft all the way, but it was close. For the next fire, I tried the newer wood and the burn was a lot more stable and manageable. I think my old wood is too dry - I'll use it in a blend and with caution. Based on that, I'm thinking that the low moisture of you elm may have been a contributing factor in your experience.

 

I would agree that the very dry elm was definitely a factor. I don't have a moisture meter, but the elm I put in there mixed with the cherry was barkless wood from near the top of a dead standing tree on my property. In other fires I can tell it burns hotter than the other wood I have.

Also, welcome to the forum midfielder! Cool avatar. Like to hear more about your experience with the Keystone. It's a beautiful stove. And pics of course!

 

midfielder welcome to the FHC.
Here is some info on controlling overfires. The info mostly refers to straight cat stoves (like we have) vs a hybrid as mentioned by the OP. The general idea is that a cat stove will off-gas/smoke a lot with a fresh load of wood on a hot bed of coals, this makes the cat vrey active, creating lots of heat causing very high stove top temp. If you open the draft a bit, the flames in the firebox will burn some of the smoke, causing a less active cat and lower stove top temp. The excess heat will radiate through the sides of the stove. I burn my Keystone with the draft completely closed a lot and have never had a problem, but I've never burned wood at 11% MC. Each stove and set up will be slightly different and results may vary.

http://firewoodhoardersclub.com/forums/index.php?threads/runaway-cat-stove.538/#post-9736

 

Thanks, great resource. This should help a great deal.

 

I've been burning the PH a couple years now, and I like boiler74's advice/post the best. I'd bet josh hit it right about the temp was showing the CAT's temp more than the "stoves" temp. The CAT burns at 1500 degrees, and it is only inches away from the location you describe you had your temp gauge. One question, do you have a shield under your cooktop? It looks like a thin sheet of stainless steel attached to the fins on the underside of the cooktop. Early PH models did not have this shield, which deflects some of that 1500 degree heat coming off the cat and onto the cooktop. That would exasperate your issue (temp gauge in wrong spot) if you were missing the shield.

My top (stone and flue collar on top) rarely hits 475, even with a roaring fire with secondaries on a full blast load and all open with the cat firing!! The stove seems to stay relatively cool (compared to what other folks post their stoves temps hit) even when at full blast, BUT, it throws off a blast furnace amount of heat at those times. I've loaded all small stuff, pine and other fast burning softwoods onto a huge super hot coal bed in a hot stove, and let it rip, and still don't get anywhere near any kind of over-fire situation. Have I had a fire get hotter than I wanted, and fire off the secondaries when I really wanted a long slow burn, sure. And a few times I even kept an eye on it wondering if it would go too far, but it's never happened and it settles down when the off gassing slows down.

So my guess would be you were just reading the temp from a "bad" spot. I would double check all the gaskets, double check both doors (load door and ash door) are closing and sealing correctly. Check the air control in the back is functioning correctly (closes and opens ....). Check you have the heat shield on the cooktop, move the temp gauge to 8 or 10" above the stove on the pipe, and lastly turn the cat and start shutting it down between 260 (color change marked on temp gage) and 300. You don't need to see the high temps others report on other stove tops, in order to get lots of heat off the PH.

Hope that helps, good luck. Definitely post back the results!

 

burndatwood,
Also, call Woodstock to have them check / give you any tips of things to check.... I didn't want to leave that out.... let us know the outcome!!

 

Hi Dennis - glad to see you're back. Hope the hunting went well for you.

I can see how giving the fire more air might seem counterintuitive at first, but then when you think about it more, it makes sense that allowing more air at room temperature into the stove would drop the temp. I've shared this with my wife, since once the really cold weather hits, she's going to be managing the stove during the course of the day while I'm at work. Right now I'm able to just load it twice a day, and it's keeping the house plenty warm.

As many have said before, the first year is the toughest. I had many years of experience running a stove as a kid, but didn't really learn how to do it right. I'm really benefiting from your experience, and many others of course.Thank you!