In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Thermal mass

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Dunmyer mowing llc, Oct 17, 2024.

  1. Dunmyer mowing llc

    Dunmyer mowing llc

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2023
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Location:
    Indiana
    No idea about r value of walls,but we did sheath the entire exterior with OSB over the original decking and that had helped with draftiness a lot.
    The rooms I've remodeled I've stuffed the thickest bat style insulation I could in there.
    Basement is uninsulated, have not made it to that part of the remodel yet (time/money)
    Most windows are original 1920 so you can imagine how bad they are
     
    BuckeyeFootball and brenndatomu like this.
  2. Dunmyer mowing llc

    Dunmyer mowing llc

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2023
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Location:
    Indiana
    Good idea on blocking
    I'm guessing with tile/stove/block I'm pushing around 2 to 2200 lbs in this area.
    Each of those supports are rated at 18k to 9k depending on extension.
     
    MikeInMa and brenndatomu like this.
  3. BuckeyeFootball

    BuckeyeFootball

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2020
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    6,318
    Location:
    Michigan
    Yeah old houses blow literally our last house was built in 1929 with a 3" dirt crawl space. They used newspaper for insulation in some places and others I found old window bays with nothing in them just covered with plywood. I'm guessing your best bang for the buck is getting some cheap double pane windows. Popping interior trim off around the perimeter and running a bead of caulk between the subfloor and bottom plate can help with drafts and tighten things up a bit too.
     
  4. Dunmyer mowing llc

    Dunmyer mowing llc

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2023
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Location:
    Indiana
    Wife will never give up her original windows.
    Gonna have to wait till they rot away.
    Have insulated the heck out of the attic to
    our house is the opposite of what would make a house easy to heat with wood.
    High ceilings, bad layout, drafty.
    But it's what we got and money is somewhat tight with 2 kids and wife staying at home while daughter is young
     
  5. Todd

    Todd

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    Location:
    NW WIS
    How’s that extra thermal mass working out?
     
  6. Dunmyer mowing llc

    Dunmyer mowing llc

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2023
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Location:
    Indiana
    IMG_20241123_130245.jpg IMG_20241123_130909.jpg IMG_20241123_130235.jpg Thermal mass upgrades have been really helping so far.
    Today I came up with an idia for the top
    Had some 2x2x1/8th angle laying around and found some more solid 1/2 blocks.
    Ran 4 pieces of angle across the span and added 5 solids to the top also added 2more cinders to the back
    Super stoked for this design
     
    SimonHS, FTG-05, Todd and 8 others like this.
  7. Todd

    Todd

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    Location:
    NW WIS
    How warm do those block get? How long do they stay warm after the fires out?
     
  8. Dunmyer mowing llc

    Dunmyer mowing llc

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2023
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Location:
    Indiana
    Highest temp I've seen is low 300s
    They're still over 100 for at least 12hrs
     
    FTG-05, Eric VW, Todd and 3 others like this.
  9. MAF143

    MAF143

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2018
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    10,684
    Location:
    North Central OH
    do your secondary tubes no longer burn? Not sure how completely blocked off your secondary tubes are.

    I have the same stove.

    Removing the side covers and closing the intake to the secondary burn tubes??? I would think that would take away the efficiency of the internal burning process and lose a lot of unburned smoke up the flue, therefore losing heat up the chimney.

    The side covers help pre-heat the air that enters the secondary tube system to "re-burn" the smoke to ensure high efficiency and clean burning.

    I like the thermal mass work and I also struggle with the high heat peaks and short "bursts" of heat this model stove puts out. My chimney has very high draft that complicates it as well as this stove's designed optimum draft is lower than my chimney draws.
     
  10. Dunmyer mowing llc

    Dunmyer mowing llc

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2023
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Location:
    Indiana
    Yes secondary tubes are completely inoperable.
    They are still in place to hold the ceramic fiberboard baffle.
    It may be less efficient, but I can pull 10 to 14 hrs out of a load depending on wood type and how tight I pack it.
    I only did it because this stove was unsafe on my chimney in factory form.
    Believe me if I could afford it I'd dump this junker in the scrap pile and buy a blaze king or something similar
     
  11. Dunmyer mowing llc

    Dunmyer mowing llc

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2023
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Location:
    Indiana
    Has your stove gone " nuclear" yet?
    With a full load and air full shut down and my dampner closed this stove would run away and start to melt its top. When secondary system was operational
     
  12. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    21,842
    Likes Received:
    138,019
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    You kinda need to "run it hard" with your setup, no? As in, "low n slow" wouldn't cut it...
     
  13. MAF143

    MAF143

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2018
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    10,684
    Location:
    North Central OH
    I do run it hard when it's cold out. I've never had it go nuclear but I frequently run it at 650* F on the stove top. I have 33' of chimney and it pulls like a freight train and I do almost completely close the damper to get it low and slow. This stove really doesn't have a low and slow with the amount of draft my chimney pulls.

    My old smoke dragon 80's air tight I had before this stove actually would hold at 400* for 8 hours but stunk like the dickens and used 2-1/2 times the wood to keep us warm. It had a firebox twice the size of this stove. I can get about 6 or 7 splits into this stove where I could get 15 at a time into the old beast.

    I've got this one where it works for me, but I agree, I would replace it with a Blaze King in a heartbeat if I could afford it...

    But instead I think I need to install a barometric damper to lower the draft of the chimney to the specs the stove is designed for. I'm thinking this may smooth my burns out more with a flatter temperature curve due to a more stable draft.
     
  14. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    21,842
    Likes Received:
    138,019
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Yes, a baro would tame that chimney...that's why many wood furnaces and boilers come with or require a baro, because they are often in the basement and are hooked to a tall chimney.
     
  15. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    44,860
    Likes Received:
    279,820
    Location:
    Central MI
    But what some do not know is what low and slow really means. For example we have ran our stove low and still reach 700 degrees. This is why I do not like that term. Most read or hear that and they think of very little heat, which is not true.
     
  16. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    21,842
    Likes Received:
    138,019
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Low n slow on a cat stove is a whole different thing than on an epa tube stove
     
    MAF143, Eric VW and Jeffrey Svoboda like this.
  17. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    44,860
    Likes Received:
    279,820
    Location:
    Central MI
    Then it is wrong to use the term perhaps
     
    brenndatomu, MAF143 and Eric VW like this.
  18. Dunmyer mowing llc

    Dunmyer mowing llc

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2023
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Location:
    Indiana
    MAF143
    I'm glad this stove is running safely for you.
    How mine is now I average 550 to 650 stovetop temps.
    Would consider this low and slow and it works well with the thermal mass
    Before I modded it I would struggle to keep it below 800 stovetop. Even with smaller loads.
    You must either make massive splits or barley load this stove to only be putting in 6 or 7 pieces
     
    Eric VW, brenndatomu and MAF143 like this.
  19. MAF143

    MAF143

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2018
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    10,684
    Location:
    North Central OH

    AGREED. I get SERIOUS heat from our stove but just don't get the long burn times due to the chimney pulling the heat out. I've had calm days with less draft on the chimney where I have gotten long burn times and the stove temps are still up there putting out the BTUs.

    I've thought about a Barometric Damper for a couple of years, but haven't really looked into it well enough to pull the trigger. I think I will order one soon and rework my stack in the basement to get it in place and see if that does give me a longer burn time.

    Thanks Dunmyer mowing llc for getting my curiosity flowing about something other than Swedish candles, porting saws, and drinking beer.

    I wouldn't call my wood "massive splits", but I do like them to last through the night... :smoke::whistle: :emb:

    I load it right up to the tubes, get the flue up to 600 or so and shut it down completely on the stove controls and almost completely on the flue damper. After doing some more reading on the baro dampers this afternoon, I'm thinking that is my next move.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2024
  20. Dunmyer mowing llc

    Dunmyer mowing llc

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2023
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Location:
    Indiana
    MAF143 let us know how the baro damper goes.