Where I left off for those who remember, Lets please just assume everything else is in order other than the stove itself. I have found some info to share, and will post other relevant topics when time permits. This stove is #4 between the house and garage so I'm not new to pellet stoves. We purchased a Vogelzang 577o to heat a partially finished room over the garage and I found it impossible to get it to run right. There are no trims for the pellet feed or blower, only a damper for air intake which has two 8mm diameter holes in it. Everything else is fixed from the factory. It will not run on lower heat settings if the damper is opened at all, otherwise it will burn the pellets and blow itself out. It only partially runs right in manual at high heat setting (with the damper still closed), but will die down to embers until the pellets catch up and then roars to life, this just keeps repeating over and over. It never really gets hot, does not blow anything but lukewarm and is incredibly dirty because it will not run hot enough to burn cleanly. All things (so far) point me in the direction of simply not enough fuel to maintain a hot clean fire. I happened to see the same stove at a hardware stove wrapped in US Stove markings, but it is identical down to the control panel. It has a pellet feed gate to allow adjustment, unlike the one we have. Some of my search has also shown that there is a 1RPM gearbox and a 1.5RPM gearbox with the same P/N so that along with the pellet feed gate leads me to believe there may be an issue with the initial stoves. I have a 2RPM gearbox laying around that I'm going to experiment with that I flipped the field to get the correct rotation. I have a panel mount PWM and a AC/AC SSR that should be here in a few days. I will wire it on my bench to verify function and probably set the rheostat so the output shaft does not exceed 1-1/4RPM, which would be +25% from 1RPM that it currently has. I can the easily swap out the gearboxes with the controls loose to give it a try, plus it a fun experiment. If that does not get the results desired, I can hook the PWM without the relay to the blower fan instead. If it does work I will mount the PWM control and SSR inside the back probably with the knob sticking out and do a proper wire job. A very crude little schematic of what I'm going to experiment with to give me pellet feed control, but you should get the idea. The N.O. SSR, will close when the control board sends 110v to turn the motor, that will send 110v through the PWM to the motor. Also a picture from the "new" stove manual of the feed gate.
I like the plan (assuming that it's the control board?), do respectfully suggest - I would pull the auger (motor) and verify free auger movement: first, if here. (Make sure the auger, and support bearings are not bound up / affecting feed rate.)
Been there done that, and again a few days ago I pulled it out to verify the output RPM. I don't believe there is anything to pinpoint "wrong" with the control board or anything else, more like stacking of tolerances is my guess. I suspect they just have them programmed to run on the ragged edge of as lean as possible to tout efficiency numbers and burn rate times. For whatever reason this one is just a little too lean the way it is. Just like a gas engine that requires 14.7:1 ratio, a pellet stove is no different to operate correctly. Since there is no way to make adjustments to get that ratio I'm doing it myself. If not clear, the auger on/off works like it should, I will just be using that output as a signal to close the SSR which will start the 2rpm gearbox that has a PWM speed control added. plus it's a fun experiment.
Cool, at least the components ("bones") are good to start. "When life hands you a lemon, time to make some lemonade".. ! Good luck w/ the Holiday project! Please keep us posted, would like to see a pic of that PWM controller - after you get it setup & running.
What RPM did you read, and is that correct for that stove? You can buy auger motors of different speeds.....maybe it's possible to get one that spins a little faster? Universal Replacement Pellet Stove Auger Motors | Made in USA - Gleason Avery Sub-Fractional Motors Manufacturer
First thing I checked, 1 RPM ...kinda... I have seen the same P/N come up as 1rpm or 1.5rpm, the one currently in the stove is indeed 1 rpm. I have a 2rpm gearbox/motor that I'm going to put in, but with my little control setup to be able to adjust the auger speed. The output time will still control the on/off time. There is a rheostat on the PWM to trim the desired output, so I will set up the 2rpm gearbox on the bench to test and trim it so that I get 1.25 rpm at max knob control to start with. That will (in theory) give me a 25% increase in pellets which should be plenty. My first thought was to see if I could control the blower motor, but that is being done by the control board, unlike the pellet feed which is just a easy to modify on/off function. For the gearbox, my initial thought was to buy a faster motor/gearbox but I have the 2 rpm to play with for free. If everything looks like it will work out and settle on a target speed, I'll look for one close to that so I'm not forcing that tiny little motor get all angry and hot running.
Good quality auger motors.....quite a few members have bought them and have been very happy. As I remember, if you see the motor you need, but it's only listed in the opposite rotation for your application, if you call them, they will make one in your configuration. At least they used to, not 100% they still do.
That jungle website was supposed to deliver my stuff yesterday and now it's "by 8:00pm" today, but stay tuned there is 2-1/2 days of snow coming so I'll have free time huddled in to play. I just pulled my dusty Husqvarna snowblower out and did the maintenance I should have done a couple months ago, and pellets a stacked deep. (plenty of coffee too...)
I'm dismayed at how quickly I forget things. Shaded pole motors do not work with inexpensive "speed controllers". I could not get the 2rpm gearbox anywhere near low enough (before it dawned on me) without becoming unstable and erratic. The idea itself would work for something, but not for this. Now if I want to gamble, I could buy a 1.5rpm gearbox and it might get me to the desired output control of 1rpm and up, but not sure I want to do that right now. If I were still working I could ask the electrical guru, but I think the only way is a frequency drive, or if you want to burn down your house just dump motor V through a large rheostat.
Shaded pole should be able to control with a cheap speed controller. Permanent split capacitor motor won't work with the cheap speed controller. Cheap speed controllers vari the voltage and the motor will reduce RPM accordingly. Apply 90V to a 120V shaded pole and the motor will run at about 75% of is rpm. 100V = approx 80% and so on. Dropping voltage to low and the motor will stahl. Edit: I don't see any of the stove manu's using voltage to control the auger. They usually use timers to control the amount of run time. On for 3 seconds off for 7 as an example.
As I've come to understand, the Triad becomes unstable with shaded pole motors, but I'm just a wireman with absorbed knowledge. Yes, the original motor is a (1 rpm) timed on/off function. Since I believe it needs more pellets, I was trying to get a 2 rpm output to slow to 1 rpm so I could trim the pellet feed higher. That was what I was alluding to about taking a chance with a 1.5rpm gearbox to try. Might just get low enough but it would be a $50 gamble unless I can find one in the dump like I did with the 2 rpm gearbox. I guess I'll go warm up the garage and do some more tests to see where the motor fails/stalls and do the math to see if it's close to feasible with a 1.5rpm output.
Most pellet stoves use triac's to control the shaded pole motors on the convection, Combustion fan. Auger and ignitor is triac's but a relay between them. The triac turns the relay on and the auger igniter use full voltage I was told by a field rep that the reason they don't try to slow the augers rpm is stahl issues as the motors need the torque to get the auger to move initially.
OK, sorry, been a bit busy. I think it is a bad idea to try and use a speed controller to change auger "speed". As it comes on and off, under load, frequently, I see problems with that. What you want to do is change the on and off time(s). Stoves that do have settings to do this, actually do this, by several ways, amount of time on, or time off. AND, someone has already done this,cheaply. I don't normally recommend mods, unless well tested, like Don does, but this fella has sold many, and certain stoves do gain by his device, HOWEVER, with a bit more cleaning being needed, which is expected on certain stoves, mainly the Castles. SO, before burning up motors, or having problem shut downs, perhaps look at this guy's device-- Englander Pellet Stove Auger Controller for lower heat output | eBay
Yes, using a speed control inline with a timed on/off power supply is a bad idea, which is why I was going to keep it powered on, and use the timed output from the stove as an input signal for an SSR, to handle the load through the "contacts". Moot point now since the whole thing was just a fun little bench experiment with a spare motor/gearbox to see if it was even feasible. From my experimenting, became apparent how quickly torque is lost, especially for use in a under load, start-stop configuration, and have shelved that idea. My brain had already shifted to a timing circuit of some sort, and it appears that has already been done and proven to work. Not nearly as fun as experimenting, but it seems I could buy one of those controllers, and replace the 1 rpm output motor/gearbox with a 1.5rpm and essentially be done with it.
You could also try to increase the pellet feed with the auger chute mod. Maybe trimming the chute cover a bit at a time to allow more pellets to feed into the auger. Then an adjustable cover down the road. Seems like it would be a least expensive option? A 1.5 RPM auger "to me(AKA IMHO)" wouldn't need to be reduced and would likely be just about what you might need to increase pellet feed without any other mods to the stove. Worst case is too much feed in the higher settings, But then you could use the chute cover mod to reduce pellets as needed. There could be another way to increase pellet feed with the 1 rpm auger and a timer circuit inline with the controller. I think they are called relay timers and use a 8 pin relay base. You might need to do a dual circuit for start up and the use the POF snap disc to switch to the timer relay. Just an idea and a cheaper option the purchasing a new auger motor.
I can't believe how quickly I've forgotten things since I've had to quit working . 8 pin EM timing relay, available with a built in pot or remote terminals. Dare not say it would be entirely that simple, but it's a better place to start and inherently safer than messing with trying to alter tiny low torque motor speeds. Just changing to a 1.5rpm is a viable idea that I've been thinking over as well. When I timed the original gearbox I thought I did something was wrong because I was getting just over 1rpm, but it seems a good many "1rpm" gearbox are actually in fact 1.1rpm. Sooo... dropping a 1.5 in is probably not too far off from where I need. Plus, yes it would be a easy and simple matter to fab and add an adjustable gate. ...I think I may have just talked myself into that... I looked at the modifying the chute to a larger opening, but it is bolted in and spaced away from the hopper by about 3/8in with a corresponding rectangle hole at the bottom of the hopper. Not impossible and I have all the means, but it would alter the stove considerably and not sure it would be worth that much effort for a disposable grade stove.
I've been out 2 years now, And I have to think about stuff much longer than I used too. Must clear the cobwebs away for the stuff starts to work again.
