Residential Solar

The effort seems to be working out for you. Congrats!

 

Just wanted to share a revelation that I had yesterday (I don't know why it took so long), I actually have tremendous shade during the winter. I realized that the highest the sun gets on the south side, is about 3 hand spans above the "horizon", this time of year (and we still have a couple of months to go before that angle starts lifting. I currently get shade that is from trees WAY off my property. My house is only 1 level above the ground, and the roof is shallow, so that exacerbates the issue. Not saying the array would produce a ton more energy than it does currently, but obviously it would produce more if I had a clearing 150-200' around my house.

Now I understand more fully why everyone I talked to said I had "a lot" of shade. They weren't just talking about the east side in the morning until 10-11 am - they were talking the full year situation, including the south side.

Fortunately, I did not expect a lot of production during the winter (and have been greatly surprised by the west-ish side production), so I have been happy with performance so far. As I've stated before, that is management of realistic expectations. Which by the way, was one of the reasons I didn't go with the first company I talked to. I believed their calculations were off and overly optimistic - and they used a smaller array (they started with 14 then went to 16 at my request). Added to that is they didn't want to put any panels on the west-ish side and finally grudgingly said they would put 3 panels over there.

 

Just a few more days of long darkness and then the days will be getting more and more light.

 

Yoop is an optimist; who knew

still following bogieb and appreciate the effort

 

Hahaha!

Just repeating what 99 pointed out yesterday evening.

Me, I still hope for the best but plan for the worst!

 

Speaking of darkness, here is the side that everyone loves to hate on (or at least I want to give everyone a more complete picture - that includes the "bad"):

In the last week, besides the days being short and the sun angle being low, there have been several dark days (heavy overcast with or without rain). On those days, the energy production is 1.5-3 kwh. I think that will run my Mr. Coffee

That type of overcast in these parts is not abnormal this time of year thru mid-to-late February. And that is why, there is no way in hell I ever thought that I could go off grid or run with just a battery backup even if I put in twice the panels that I currently have. Just not feasible at my location.

 

So Thursday I get a knock at my door. I peer outside and see an old red 1970s 10 speed bicycle with ram's horns handlebars in the driveway, and a disheveled looking man about my age standing on my front porch, holding a clipboard. He wastes no time in lambasting our electrical company (Eversource) emphasizing how next month the rates will double. Living in a state with pretty much the highest energy prices in the nation already, I listen intently for a couple minutes while he does his solar spiel. Eventually, trying not to be rude, I kindly asked him to stop back on Saturday when I have more time to discuss things. He comes back a couple days later as expected and we had a nice conversation. Right off the bat, it's clear that one very large double oak tree that straddles my property line will have to come down prior to installing any panels. Technically it's my neighbor's tree (although it may or may not fall within the city's right-of-way boundaries) I have fantasized about taking it down for a couple years now, as it shades my garden certain times of day/year. I'm reasonably certain my neighbor would be willing to let it go since he has many humongous red oaks on his side and complains nonstop about fall cleanup of leaves/acorns/etc. But I'm getting ahead of myself a bit. The solar guy is going to come back this Saturday with a formal proposal, and if the numbers work out, and I get a warm fuzzy feeling, I think I want to pursue it. In a nutshell, I could end up getting both solar AND a mountain of red oak firewood. We'll see....
The tree I’m talking about:

 

You making sure it's OK to take down the tree?

I'd want to know before any ink to paper.

 

Everything hinges on my neighbor's willingness to let the tree go. If and only if the numbers work out, the deal gets shelved until I talk to my neighbor. If he prefers to keep the tree, I could be at a loss. Hopefully that's not the case though. My problem is that I only have semi-decent eastern sun exposure with things how they are, and would need an array on the western side of the house too (where the oak tree is) I live on a steep hill that faces north, so southern sun exposure is extremely limited. Either way, I won't commit to anything or give my John Hancock without an open, honest discussion with the neighbor first.

 

Interesting that the guy was on a bicycle and he was knocking on doors, I've never seen that happen. I've seen them at BBS (reputable ones), but not knocking on doors. I would be suspicious just because of that (we have those types of scams for "driveway paving" around here all the time). I'd also get an estimate from at least 1 other company and do your research online about the company. It is fairly easy to find out how long the company has been in business, their BBB rating, and reviews.

If everything works and you decide to go for solar make sure to read and understand the contract before signing. It should describe the exact set up, work involved, payment terms, cancellation terms, who is responsible for what (such as if a transformer upgrade is required) etc. Do not hesitate to go back if you have any questions/concerns. Once the contract is signed do not give them a bunch of cash up front. The company should ask for a $1,000-%1,500 non-refundable deposit for a roof inspection / structural report / array design to be presented to your town for approval before any real money is involved. The structural report may come back as saying you need extra support (or may not - mine didn't but I know people who did).

Once all the approvals are in place, then they will want a big chunk of change; one company wanted 80%, the company I went with wanted 70%. The rest is due after your town inspector has signed off on the install. And understand, you will have to come up with the full amount - the Federal tax credit is a rebate on your tax liability at the time you file your taxes. If you haven't paid taxes (or enough), then you don't get it back. I believe you can make a claim for any excess amount the next tax year but you can not zero. If, for sake of argument, your total income tax liability is $2,000 and the tax credit for your array would come to $5,000 - you don't get that $5k back, just the $2k.

My personal feeling is not to go with a lease, so I only discuss actually paying directly for the array. Oh, and also understand how your net metering works. NH has one of the best net metering plans for the consumer put into place by the state. Some aren't so good.

Best of luck in your endeavor!

 

I just got a message from the solar company and my house has been disqualified. Too many trees would have to come down first (they're all on my neighbor's side too) I guess I'll just eat the 48% rate increase that takes effect next month.

 

Bummer, dude.

 

I just signed up with a different supplier altogether. Rates with Eversource were going up from 12 cents per kilowatt to 24. The new company offered me a 3 year deal with no early cancellation fees/penalties at 16.59 cents per kilowatt. Still a small increase, but MUCH better than what I would be paying.

 

If you truly want solar, I would get a second and third opinion if you can get your neighbor to agree with taking that tree down for the west side. Out of the 3 solar companies I contacted, one refused to come out because I had "too much shade". I have a completely clear west side and even the east side clears shade by 10 am in the summer (and the south side is between the two extremes). The other 2 companies came out and gave me quotes while keeping me apprised of there being a lot of shade.

A good company will account for the shade and possibly go with more panels than if you had no shade, but companies should be able to give you options. I was flat told by the solar installer I chose that normally they don't suggest installing on the west side at all - just the east and south. He was hesitant to suggest the west side, but once I told him that was part of what I had tentatively envisioned. Even though my "west" side is a few ticks more northerly than true west, the west side is outperforming the east side at this non-optimum time of year.

I've seen houses with panels only on the west side around here too because of circumstances. I don't know if they offset all, or just a portion of their usage (annually).

 

I'm feeling a little gut-punched at the moment about this solar thing. I might consider getting a second or third opinion at some point though. I tend to believe what the first company told me about shade, however. I'll attach an aerial view taken of my yard from about March of this year. Don't mind my mess of a backyard, Google Maps waited until it was as bad as it ever was and shouted "okay boys, now's our chance to catch this hillbilly Yankee for the whole world to see!" as they snapped the picture
Anyway, there are quite a few really tall trees to come down on my neighbor's side. In the front yard there's the previously mentioned double red oak, then directly on the south side of my house is a row of tall hemlocks, then a little further to the east behind my house are a humongous tulip poplar, a large yellow birch, and a shagbark hickory crammed in there. You can see by the shadows cast across the ground that these are tall trees. If it were just the oak in the front, I could probably convince my neighbor to let the tree go. I would have a hard time selling him on taking down ALL the trees abutting my property line though. There is some hope for cutting the hemlocks in the next couple years. Last year I noticed they were loaded with the invasive hemlock woolly adelgids, and they were on the trees this year too. Maybe they'll kill the trees and will have to be cut at that point. So all is not lost, yet.

 

Some of the solar web sites use a roof shading calculator like this one:
Project Sunroof
Might even be that same one.
Give it a shot.
There's one that lets you move the pin onto another building in case you have several buildings on your property and google picked the wrong one, but I can't find it right now.


From the shadows in your pic it looks like the hemlocks are the year-round deal-killer.

 

So those hemlocks aren't real great, that is for sure

Here are pics that Google has - The first pic is from pre-2013 (before I bought the house) and shows the morning shade (and those trees have done nothing but grow). The second pic is probably 10-11 am, around 2018. The majority of those trees are 80-100' tall and not on my property. Oh, and note that that is near true orientation, so the "west" side is not at optimum.


The one difference between those two pictures is that the huge willow on the south side was taken down since it was dying (and dropped 1/5 of its crown on the house).

One advantage my house has in this situation is the roof is fairly shallow (if it was steeply pitched. that east side would have been a no-go). I did take down several trees that were dying - more to protect my system from falling stuff as it only served to thin the canopy. But at the same time, that canopy keeps my house from heating up first thing in the morning, so AC use doesn't come into play until later in the day.

Pictures are all well and good, but you really need to know and understand how your house really is from spring until fall (although being further south, you might get some decent winter sun too). Take my west side - I KNOW that side gets crazy amounts of sun and expect it to be the top producing side (or at least in the running with the south side). And get this, the sun doesn't actually set in the west during summer (between the two equinoxes), but to the WNW. So my house orientation is actually set up well for summer solar production on that side. But a couple of the companies poo-poo'ed the idea of even using that side. Okay, so it still has to be proven out - but since it is currently outproducing the east side (even though this time of year the sun sets WSW), I'm thinking I'm pretty safe in my thinking.

I still think it would be worth it to check about at least using your west side - if you can get permission to cut down the oak. That side is a bit tougher since it has the two vents (or whatever) and the peaked porch roof. IDK, that picture looks like maybe it was taken in the afternoon, so you might still get good sun on that east side. And using mini inverters (one to each panel) helps maximize production even when some panels are shaded.

You need to find a company that isn't lazy and goes by only pictures, but sends a tech out to use a meter to determine things.

 

Gotta admit - zero production yesterday with all the snow . Picts taken at 4:15 pm and the roof had been dumping on a consistent basis all day.

 

That’s a nice resource. According to the site, I’m solidly on the shaded side of the spectrum. The house across the street from me (upper left corner of the picture) got solar last year from the same company that came to my house last week. He ended up cutting down a few trees in his backyard first though.

 

Here’s what it looks like from the ground.
Looking out my back door at all the trees blocking the sun from the east/east-southeast:

The row of hemlocks to the south:

Standing on my back deck, looking west towards the front of the house. You can see how that double oak would cast a lot of shade: