Compression/tension question

Suppose you have a large oak down on the ground that was pushed over by an excavator. The tree is a tall red oak with limbs that grew upwards, not outwards. So, the trunk on the ground is not more than a foot or two off the ground. (Of course, some limbs on the bottom snapped when it hit the ground.) It is basically laying parallel to the ground. The ground is pretty level.

You're trying to remain safe and not get your bar pinched! So, the remaining root ball is on the left and the tree top is on the right. Say you want to buck the root ball off. (Yes, can be dangerous, aware of that.) Say you want to cut the trunk 2-4 feet to the right of the root ball. Is the upper side of the trunk under compression or tension? (I figured it was compression on top, with the weight of the entire trunk wanting to push down on the trunk, creating compression on the top and tension on the bottom. But, the saw almost immediately got pinched. Saw what?! I mean, like, a couple of inches in. So, is it that the weight of the root ball is pulling left on the entire tree, putting tension the top of the trunk and compression on the bottom? Surely not, surely the entire tree weighs more than the root ball! Whatever, it got pinched.

Trying to understand why it pinched so quickly. My appreciation of proper bucking and where to start cutting is on the compression side first. If so, I certainly need to be able to cut a little farther in! If you're not doomed (saw pinching) cutting compression first, hmmmm.

I have a lot of these trees to do and gotta be safe and efficient.

 

Trying to paint the picture of what happened. So I’m guessing the root ball is wanting to fall over on the trunk of the tree. Not uncommon. I don’t believe there is one definitive answer to your question. If the root ball is under tension, wanting to go back to its relaxed/ tree upright position, as you cut, the bar shouldn’t pinch. If it wants to fall on the log, it’ll pinch.

 

It really depends...hard to say with no picture...even with one, there are still a thousand variables...that's why you have to prepared for anything...if this was easy everybody would do it!

 

I’ve dealt with many many pushed over trees. For a couple years, I processed bull dozed apple orchards. They were completely pushed out of their hole. I never started by cutting off the base first. I always worked limbs, then the trunk last. I never had the threat of the tree standing back up. In your case, I’d not want to take too much off the top, to increase the possibility of it standing back up. Are some of the roots still in their original location?

 

Each situation is different, in in general you have the right idea. I always cut up a tree from the top down to minimize pinching and you can anticipate what is coming as the tree gets bigger.

 

I never thought of the root ball wanting to fall toward the trunk! That never entered my mind. I figured it wanted to sit down where it used to be. I wish I had a pic. I have several but not this!

FWIW, these trees were pushed down by an excavator and I think I saw them dig out most of the dirt from the ball. So, these root balls should be lighter than just a windblown tree.

I got jammed more than once yesterday. Like, three times and each time it was quickly, so, I am not reading something correctly. I was able to 'git 'er done' but something isn't right!

EDIT: I can't buck these trees up; they have to be left with most of the tree intact, because the excavator guy is going to come back and haul the entire tree (what's left of it after limbing) to near the access road so I can get them out over the winter.

EDIT2: Also, the excavator guy dug through the roots, shearing them (and digging it a bit free) before pushing each tree.

 

This answer. If this is at your buddies place with the pond deal, cut the whole crown off first, usually requires an undercut to finish. If stuff moves, you move! Sometimes when trees are knocked over with equipment, you'll also get a twist tension to the trunk. Root ball is heavy one way & crown the other. This type of tension will show up very quickly & pin your bar fast. It's a real pita to deal with. "Untwisting a bigger tree is not fun. Do it from the top end, less weight up there.

 

Then what I said above really applies, cut at the first limb & leave the whole crown, then at the root ball.

 

I always start from the top back. You. Ant ever say what something will do without being there. Sometimes you know it's under tension and still cut it wrong, sometimes they catch you off guard. That's why I'm always careful, try to neber be in the crush zone of it rolls or when it drops. And i always carry at least 2 saws with me often a 3rd.

 

When you are bucking down and you start getting pinch, use a felling wedge and hammer it into the cut, then finish. It’ll allow you to get completely through.

 

Ok, you mention something else I have never known of (twist tension from heavy equipment effect), just lack of experience that you apparently have! I just know something weird is going on.

When you say cut the whole crown off first and "requires an undercut to finish," do you mean you are assuming that to remove the entire crown, a top cut would be first and then a bottom cut to finish?

 

Well, that was my plan from the getgo on that cut, but if it pinches within a couple of inches, you can't get a wedge in! I mean, this happened without the bar even fully into the trunk.

 

Well, it makes me feel slightly better, because I have darn sure tried to do this safely and correctly! I read and watch videos and study the log and such and dang, something surprising! And, yep, I had three saws! And wedges and stuff.

 

Sometimes it is hard to determine if the compression is on the top or the bottom of the log. Start your cut slow and if you see any movement in the kerf either go to the other side or tap the wedge in that you have in your pocket. We all pinch a bar from time to time but the more experience you have the less it will happen. I feel some of the most dangerous trees to deal with are the ones that wind has partially downed ,there can be stored energy that we just can't see. Be carefull barberchair can happen horizontally as well as vertically. The logging winch on the back of my tractor has helped eliminate a lot of danger

 

That is correct assuming there is weight on the crown, which there should be if the root ball is free. With the entire weight of the stem still there it's much less likely that the tree will try & stand back up. Look carefully for any splits in the trunk also, common in trees knocked over by machine or wind. As walt said, a barber chair situation can happen on a horizontal tree as well. It will remove your head just as easily too. It might be to your advantage to bore cut at the crown cut & then work the bar up a bit, then down to get a feel for which way the weight is. This also keeps you back away from the tree a bit further, keeping your body slightly more clear. Think thrice & cut once.

 

If you are unsure, bore cut the log leaving holding wood on top and bottom.
Set wedges in bore.

You can snip from the outside in to release.

 

Well that was much more concise. Thanks John.

 

Words rarely ever make it from my noodle to my mouth in concise fashion Adam.

 

Went back at it again today and did have one 'problem' and solved it but, overall, it was nothing like yesterday. I must've had some bad trees, lol. Today was the way it is supposed to be! I probably cut the root balls off of 20 big oaks. And limbed them first. Whooped (tired), that's for sure!