Woodstock Progress Hybrid Owners

Hello all,

Last year I was posting some issues that I've been having with my new progress hybrid. The issues continue and I'm in the final stages before possibly replacing the stove so I'd like to take one more stab that's seeing if anyone has had or is having similar issues.

My stove is top vented with 28 ft of pipe that is perfectly straight. Most of it is double wall and the chimney is inside the home until it exits the roof 18 ft up. My fuel is primarily Maple and oak that has been seasoned two to three years and is all below 15% moisture.I replaced the cooktop gasket, the door gasket, and the gasket that's behind the frame of the door itself. I've run the stove in just about every kind of configuration you could dream of with windows open and closed. Drafting

 

Are you getting a smoke/creo smell indoors that indicates sketchy draft?

Does your home have any other fan systems venting to the outside that could be competing for available combustion air? Clothes dryer, range hood fan, Forced air heat system, HRV, Radon gas evac. system.

How exactly are you determining moisture content? What is your testing routine. Below 15% is a interesting # for Wi. unless you are using a kiln setup?

What is your start up-cat engagement-turn down to cruise routine. In detail.

Unlikely to recognize any issues with your answers to these questions but you never know Another set of eyes situation.

 

moresnow those are all good points. I am getting a creosote smoke smell. I have just about every fan that you listed in the home but I've tried every configuration you can imagine to include having a window right next to the stove open.

I've never seen a negative draft in this stove. It pulls like crazy. Also the configuration and the window don't seem to help.

When I test moisture content it's done by using a moisture meter and checking the center of a freshly cracked split. I average 13 to 16%.

On a cooler start we will allow the stove top temp to get to about 350 before engaging the cat. After that we slowly work the air down and usually close it somewhere around 425°. The stove usually cruises at around 500°. Unless I leave some air on it at which time it will go to about 550°. As mentioned above the worst case scenario is when I do a hot reload in the evening. I bypass the cat, open the air, and throw a few splits on before bed. The stove top temp at this time is around 400°. I then wait till I see a positive increase in stove top 10 before engaging the cat and bringing the air down to around 50%. Once the stove top gets up to about 500°. I usually bring the air down to all the way closed. The smell is by far the worst during this scenario. The stove runs 24/7 and this is the second season of burning.

I certainly appreciate any insight or suggestions.

 

Have you called Woodstock? If not, I’d definitely recommend it. Good luck.

 

Ivan confused by these two parts of your comments...

1. “Most”of it is double wall...

2. “It pulls like crazy...”

How much is “most”? 18 ft up is a long way to go just to get to the rest of the chimney. Should be double wall all the way out!! That’s a lot of pipe to cool things off. I’d be checking the inside of that chimney for creosote and tar.

Those two things should not be leading to a smoke/creosote smell in the home. Doesn’t make sense.

 

Hoytman you are correct that sentence was confusing. It's double walled all the way. 18 ft of it is in the house and then it exits and goes through a chimney Chase for the remaining 10 ft. Last winter the stove was burning from November until April 24/7. When I cleaned the chimney this past summer it really didn't even need it. The stove is known for producing very little creosote and it lived up to its name.

The creosote smell is primarily coming from the front door side corner of the cooktop. That being said, I have never seen smoke actually come out of the stove in any way and I've never seen a negative draft even during a complete cold start. there is always a strong positive draft which makes it so damm confusing.

 

I have battled a leak at the hinge side of the loading door for years now, without resolution. I have settled into a routine of changing the door gasket 3-4 times a season, and prying it up (from the compressed state) with a putty knife with every load. This keeps the smell to a minimum. I also have an HRV pushing fresh air into the stove room, as well as a standalone hepa filter running, both continuously through the season. The leak is real: I have confirmed it many times with a gas leak detector. It has never set off the CO detector, however. I've also confirmed the pressure conditions in the house (very slightly negative on the first floor, like pretty much all houses), as well as extremely strong draft.

I replied to the cooktop gasket thread because I'm determined to find closure on this problem one way or another now, and I have to believe there are others out there who have this problem as well. My house is a bit on the small size for a Progress, but it's old, and I heat it entirely with the stove (which it does extremely well). Perhaps others use the stove in larger, leakier homes, and the issue is then not so noticeable. Regardless, WS does not have a solution for this issue. Perhaps if more users report the problem first, they will feel compelled to apply some engineering resources to finding the true cause.

 

Lakeside...on my end it looks like maybe your begining post on this thread got cut short for some reason...last word I have is "drafting ". All the information on your scenario may not have gotten out, and may help get more responses.

Sounds like Buck1200 is going through great pains to try to alleviate the issue. Interested to see what can be figured out with your stove to get your problem addressed and hopefully solved.

 

Eckie thanks for pointing that out, the majority of my post got cut off.

First I'll say that I've been in contact with Woodstock regularly since the purchase of the stove. They have been great and as helpful as possible. I have no doubt that they'll continue to work with me up to an including replacing the stove so I don't want to bag on their company.

As Buck1200 mentioned the smoke smell is real. I believe the majority of it comes from the front corner of the cooktop but I have also noticed a smell coming from the hinge side of the door.

The smell is most significant during a hot reload, typically when I'm topping the stove off before going to bed in the evening. The stove top temperature might be between 350° and 400°. I'll bypass the cat, open the air and allow a good draft to get going before opening the door. I have never seen smoke come out of the door on this stove because it drafts very well in my setup. After loading it I will allow the wood to catch a good flame and see a positive increase in stove top temperature before I close the cat and then begin slowly stepping the air down. If I load the fire box up good and step the air close to closed the smell will get strong at times. That being said there is still a smell even if I leave a good amount of air on the stove but I can't leave it that way for long because the stove top temperature will just keep climbing due to the strong draft. I will also get a smell on a cooler reload in the morning but it's typically not as strong. I always wait until 350° stove top before engaging the cat and the cat is routinely cleaned. The stove usually cruises around 500° or maybe 575 if I leave a little bit of air on it.

I have replaced the cooktop gasket, the door gasket, and the gasket behind the mounting plate for the door. Woodstock also put me in touch with a local progress owner in Wisconsin and he has similar issues with his door hinge. I don't know that I would consider it a known issue but I know I'm not the only person who experiences it.

My primary concern are the gases that are getting in the home with my family. It's a very unusual circumstance because I know for a fact that the stove drafts well. Throughout my experiments I have run it with a window wide open next to it so it isn't a pressure issue in the house either. How or why a smell comes out of a stove that is drafting up the chimney so hard is beyond me. It just doesn't make any sense quite frankly, which is partly why it's so frustrating.

I would be interested to hear if there are progress owners on this forum that are not having any issues with their stoves... Meaning they are having no smell problems at all.

Thanks for everyone's insight.

 

Buck1200 I pm'd you.

 

Have you tried placing a weight on top of the cooking plate? Maybe they can send you a new one? I used to replace my door gaskets every year on my Keystone and Fireview or I'd have a faint smoke smell coming from them.

 

The only thing I could think of trying would be to let the load get a good char on it after engaging the cat. Then begin reducing air. I can induce the creo smell on my BK by shutting down the air prematurely on a fresh load. BK recommends running wide open for 30 minutes after cat engagement. I rarely run wide open for the recommended 30 but I do go 20 or better on many loads. It makes a difference on my setup. I can't say that it will work on yours but it's worth a try!

 

So I will finally ask what I've been wondering... What is the creosote smell? Versus wood smoke smell?

 

Oh...you will know...it’s certainly not a wood smoke smell. Creosote is 10 kinds of funky mcnasty smelling!!! Similar to tar...wood tar that is...Texas tea. Sorry, wrong show.

 

You aren't getting any moisture in the chimney some how are you?

 

Todd I haven't put a weight on the stove top but there are 3 heavy pieces of soapstone that sit on top of the cooktop when it's not in use. I only remove those stones to clean the cat. I have always wondered if it's possible there is a slight warp in the cooktop.

moresnow I have tried running it with a lot of air after a reload and that does help but not eliminate the issue. I typically can't run it wide open for that long after a hotter reload because the stove would overfire if I let it go for 20-30 minutes. Basically if I don't close the air down to almost nothing within 10 minutes of a reload the stove would get too hot.

Eckie and Hoytman I would call it a creosote smell more than a smoke smell. Almost kind of a sour and hot smell but it's hard to put into words. Funky Mcnasty is probably as close of a description as I could come up with.

oldspark I haven't seen any moisture issues in the chimney that I'm aware of. When I cleaned the chimney for the first time this year it hardly had any creosote buildup at all. At most a half a cup came out and that was after 5 months of continuous operation.

I'm going to ask woodstock to replace the cooktop, loading door and I'll replace the cooktop gasket again. I may possibly try putting a fresh CAT in it also. They have also designed a new stove dampener for the Progress that it operated like the IS and AS stoves from woodstock. I don't believe they are offering them for sale on the market yet but I'm going to see if I can get ahold of one. It's supposed to allow for more control of the air at lower settings.

At the end of the day I'm willing to try just about anything but if I can't get the stove to stop pumping gases into my house it's going to have to go. It kills me to say that because I really want to love the stove.

 

What a conundrum.

Some of this might really be out there ideas- but have you considered using a thermal imaging camera to see if you're getting the exhaust fumes pouring out of the stove in some spot?
Maybe try a flash light held at some different angles to see the source. It'll be kind of tough because the heat lines coming off the stove could also be deceiving.
Do you have a smoke detector / CO detector? I'd try putting it as close to the stove as possible to see if you're getting anything in the room other than the smell.

I think I kind of have an idea of the smell you're describing- it can be a rather acrid or pungent smell.

 

Ever made jerky in your oven? Similar but waaaay worse.

 

I wanted to follow up with the group. I spoke to the owner of Woodstock today. There is chance that he pinpointed the problem based on issues they've had in the past and I'm being sent some different bolts that will hopefully fix the issue. If it fixes the problem I'll take some photos of the fix and post them because it could affect all Progress Hybrid stoves. Some stoves would be affected more based on the setup that they operate in. They are also going to change how these bolds are tapped on future stoves to hopefully avoid the problem all together.

They are also going to send me the new air dampener for the stove that was just designed. It's supposed to give a lot more control over the burn rates at the lower air settings similar to the steel stoves that woodstock designs.

I crossing my fingers that it will work and I'll keep you posted.

 

Great to hear...hopefully it will work for you!