I have admitted before that I struggle to sharpen chains well and I even have a Stihl 2-in-1. Still trying to get it right, seemed to make a little headway recently. That's for today and beyond, lol. I am at my brother's place and he (his job) has a Stihl ms290. He recently bought a new chain for it, and it was chosen by a dealer, so, hopefully, they sold him the right chain. It's a Stihl safety chain, as it should be because he has very little saw experience. It's a 20 inch, .325 Stihl bar/chain. That chain had very little time on it but my brother did not know about being uber careful not to hit dirt and in his locale, dirt means chert rock! When I tried to cut with the saw, the chain looked kinda dull to me and, yes, it absolutely would not cut. I thought the chain was on backwards, lol. After sharpening the saw on a vice with the 2-in-1 to what I thought was a major sharpness improvement, I went behind his shop to some downed red oak that had been there for several years (over 5 yrs, say, 5-10 years) to do a test cut. It barely cut it! Just threw some saw dust. I then deduced that the rakers just have to be too high and filed them some. I didn't know how far to go, just did a few cutting strokes per raker. Safety chain, so, it's double rakers. Saw cut the same, that had not helped. I then took the saw to a downed black locust. It's around 8" DBH and the entire tree is off the ground. Bark is still intact. I dunno how old it is but I didn't think it was very old but I dunno. Same result with the saw, just threw dust. Question is, do you think that red oak and that black locust could be so hard that unless the chain is really sharp, it just is not going to cut? I also thought it could possibly be the wrong chain somehow, but that seems unlikely. We bought a new 2nd chain at a dealer for it yesterday. He matched the chain to the writing on the bar. This newest chain is Stihl 3689 005 0081... which is .325 .063 RM3 81 DL. When I get to his shop, I will see how those chains match up. I am also going to look at that first chain again to see if I can determine if the rakers are reasonably close to efficient. But... I cannot imagine his rakers/teeth being this bad because he had not used that first chain very much at all.
Some pics of your sharpened chain with the edge of the top and side cutter would help with seeing what may or may not be wrong. Does the 2in1 also file drag? Some old hard wood can cut different, but a sharp chain should be making chips not dust. Sometimes people don’t file enough to remove all the damage from a grounding/rock strike.
If you can see scuffs on the top of the cutter it’s still damaged. That’s why we go out of our way to not rock a chain LOL It’s possible to ruin a brand new chain if you’re not aware of this I suppose. Old wood can get hard,,,very hard in some cases. A sharp chain will cut it tho. Just dull up faster than normal.
When I used to cut lots of wood and sell, a buddy and I would sometimes find oaks lying around and all the sap wood would be totally gone, like long gone. No telling how long some of these trees had been down. After a few rounds, we affectionately started calling these "concrete trees". Super good wood IF you wanted to fight it. We quickly deemed them not to be worth our time and effort and steered clear. Now that Im not looking for quick production like back then, I might would revisit cutting a couple IF the quality and dryness was worth it....
I know I usually try to keep pushing on with a chain when I should stop and sharpen. Once i finally sharpen (or swap out with a sharp one) I'm like "why didnt I do that earlier?".... But these "concrete trees" don't much care...of course a sharp chain does better, but the trees I'm referring to send a sharp chain down the dull path quickly and just laugh at it... Got me thinking...wonder if these would be a good candidate for a carbide chain...
Yawner , I don't think your chain is correctly sharpened either. That being said, some old hardwoods are very hard, & no offense, but RM green label chain is almost useless imo. I've bought a few used saws with that stuff on it, & just threw it in the scrap.
I use full chisel chains and I assume that RM chain is a safety chain. We bought it because my brother has little experience with a saw and is a tad intimidated by a chainsaw. He's fully capable and knows to be safe, just not much experience. Do you think one should only buy full chisel? I know it's all I want to use. I also find a safety chain's rakers especially hard to file since there's two of them per raker. If you go into a Stihl dealer and just ask for a chain for a saw, I find that they will sell you a safety chain. I always say I want full chisel only. Seems weird that they would sell you something that isn't good. EDIT: I forgot to mention that with that first chain that would not cut that real old, hard red oak log and then I filed the rakers a bit and it still wouldn't, I went to a couple of 2 inch sweetgum saplings and cut them down like going through butter. I suspect that the chain was NOT sharp enough to be great but good enough for easy wood, and that the red oak IS truly really, really hard. My take on it as this time. I am going to investigate further and may try more sharpening. And hold on to the RM chain for now until I get a better feel for it as a choice. Another reason we went with the safety chain is he works for a university and they are kind of conservative and used to a following status quo rules, lol.
RM is semi chisel, RS is full chisel. The green label is "safety" chain with extra bumpers. I run semi chisel yellow on several saws. Bit slower, but much better in dirty conditions. I have never made a green chain cut well enough to suit me. Teach your brother to keep his left hand on top of the handle & his body out of the plane of the chain. That & proper ppe will prevent most serious saw injuries. Any chain can kick back if the bar tip contacts any obstruction. The inertia brake is your friend.
When those green label chains show up here they hang on the wall till I know I'm cutting some chitty stuff and don't care. I use the RM yellow only because it doesn't dull as fast as RS in less than perfect wood. Yawner RM is semichisel. RM3 and RS3 are the safety chains.
Ok, so the newest chain saying RM3 confirms it is a safety chain. I forgot that you can buy semi chisel in a non safety chain.
Regardless of wood density the saw should cut with minimal pressure from the user. YES, certain wood when dead will be very dense and dull a chain faster and resist cutting more. Sounds like when he hit the dirt he REALLY hit the dirt and took a good amount of the edge off. This means many strokes (sometimes 20-30 on each tooth) to get that edge back. Less than enough strokes will not restore its edge, especially the tip that makes the first contact with the wood. If you're not sure give it a few extra strokes with the file. Rakers should not be the issue unless the chain had multiple sharpenings and some "meat" was gone. A quick touch up of the chain can be as little as two strokes each. Problem is when a novice cuts and starts to dull the chain they push on it harder and usually cut more dirt. I always tell a newbie/novice "Would you shave with a dull razor?" As far as your sharpening skills Bill, keep trying, practice makes perfect.
The only issues with the rakers using a 2-1 should be making them too aggressive unless the file is in backwards. As Chud & buZZsaw BRAD said you may need to use several strokes & up to 20-30 strokes depending on how bad the cutter is & how much pressure you use when sharpening. If the chain has been run dull long enough the top cutting edge may be rolled & the top plate totally deformed. My Dad, brother & cousin just push harder when their chain gets dull & deform the teeth. I estimate that they decrease chain life by 1/2 or more not to mention the excessive heat build up in the saw most likely decreasing saw life also & user fatigue. A sharp chain should throw chips as Chud had said.
I AM NOT AN EXPERT! Yawner, I just did something similar. I sharpened both saws last night in the shop and changed to an older chain that needed sharpened after I’d used it to cut out a stump. When I tryed it today on some blowdown ash, it didn’t cut worth a ****. I “think” I didn’t apply a twist to raise the 2n1 up into the gullet to sharpen the bottom of the tooth though the side was sharp. I did do the rakers and also had checked them with a Oregon raker guide and flat file to make sure. It was definitely the tooth not sharpened correctly. I resharpened it this afternoon and will retry it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Find a reputable place that sharpens them. Thats what I do at least its like $4 per chain and saves the time and guesswork.
I hear ya but I give that zero chance for my locale. The only sharpening services I have found are dealers and they use automatic sharpeners that don't do rakers. I have tried three places and they all either burnt the teeth or sharpened them too much or unevenly. And didn't do rakers. I will never do that again. I found one dealer who actually sharpened by hand but he grew his dealership and stopped sharpening. What I have considered doing very strongly is sending multiple chains to a sharpening service long distance from me. I am sure many are aware of it, the guy has several very expensive, automated sharpening machines. I have been thinking of trying him out. But even if I do that, I would rather get better at sharpening because it would be handy to be able to do it well even occasionally. Of course, another option is buying a grinder but using a service, there would be no outlay. I think I was getting a good bite on the chain on this last sharpening and agree with some in this thread, it just was not enough.
Yeah, something seems off. 2 in 1 sharpeners get the rakers. If anything some say they get the raker's a little too low, aka aggressive.
