Catalytic vs non cat video

Can yall please advise if this is a good video comparing catalytic vs non cat stoves? If you know of any other good informational stove vids, I'd appreciate it if you could link them. Still researching, trying to figure out the pros and cons of different stoves, to figure out what I would like to eventually purchase. Thanks!

 

Good explanation..
I have a Woodstock IS is hybrid with both. New cat less than $200. If you can’t monitor to temp xx. And pull a lever you should not be using a woodstove

 

Good video. I went thru all the same analysis 7 years ago and went with a tube stove and had had great luck on maintenance, only replaced baffle boards once and brick once, Still has original gaskets. Yes I did not want to replace a CAT every two years +- for what did video say $300? Plus my cord use has now dropped to 3-4 per year (Three Year Plan).

 

It certainly seems like a good, quick presentation of each type of stove. It is pretty simple but that is all that could be fitted into a video overview that only lasts a few minutes. So overall I think it is a fine primer on the two main types of wood stove currently in use and I did not see anything that I thought was incorrect or over- simplified.

As for a better video, I really do not think there are any, at least not short as this one is. From this point, you basically have to do some research and learn more of the finer points of each type. My only caution would be to watch out for opinions lurking as facts- it is not that people are trying to mislead you or anyone else, it is just that our preferences tend to come out in what we think are perfectly neutral statements.

Unlike the age- old 'Chevy vs. Ford' contest, these two stove types really are different and I do think that people will often be happier with one instead of the other. As the gentleman in the video says, it does depend on what you want and expect of a wood stove as to which one would suit you better.

 

With a cat stove, I understand that you engage the cat (move a lever) at a certain temperature. I'm sure it will vary based on how you start the stove (type of wood etc), but is there a general timeline on how long it typically takes to reach the temp so that you can engage? If you start/reload the stove and for whatever reason do not/cannot engage the cat, does it cause any harm to the stove? Or do you just miss out on being as efficient as possible and not get as long a burn on that load? Also, when temps are decreasing, do you have to disengage the cat? And if you miss that time/temperature, does that do any harm? Trying to gauge timeline of in the morning, if I reload the stove and have to go to work. Are cat stoves better suited to someone who is at home more? I like the idea of the cat extending burn times, and it sucks to have to replace so often, but if it is that much more efficient and would helo to spread out the heat longer, I see that as a benefit. Not sure if I'm over thinking things (I habe a tendency to do that)...but I like to know the details of what I'm potentially getting into.

I watched another vid today on a soapstone stove. I think I like the "mellowing out the heat" of the stone stove vs steel/ci. One of my concerns is the stove room is about 19 x 19, on one end of the house, with only one small doorway and a window leading to the rest of the house (it was a 2 step split level porch enclosed and finished by previous owners). It is our main living/tv room, so I would prefer to not have it too hot. Not sure if a soapstone and/or cat stove would help regulate. And have read the tip on here from Backwoods Savage and others of the fan on far side blowing cool floor air towards stove room.

 

Length of time really depends on how dry your wood is and bed of coals or a cold re light plus your natural draw. My stove doesn’t require a match from Thanksgiving to Easter.

basically you need to get your flue temps to 500 degrees internal engage cat and several reductions of air. In my stove about 20 minutes

my stove room is same size

 

1) With a cat stove, I understand that you engage the cat (move a lever) at a certain temperature. I'm sure it will vary based on how you start the stove (type of wood etc), but is there a general timeline on how long it typically takes to reach the temp so that you can engage?
--> The temp that a catalyst will ignite the off gasses will be over 500F internal stove temp. I think I usually wait til it gets close to 600 just to be sure. My stove top temp is about half of what the internal temp of the stove is. So around 300F STT is when I go to engage the cat.

2) If you start/reload the stove and for whatever reason do not/cannot engage the cat, does it cause any harm to the stove?
--> IF you have a catalytic stove- use it appropriately as directed. Using it in a manner it is not designed to run is not advised by anyone I've ever come across.

3) Also, when temps are decreasing, do you have to disengage the cat?
--> No, for an overnight burn or something to that effect, you can let it run out without having to worry about disengaging the catalyst.

4) Trying to gauge timeline of in the morning, if I reload the stove and have to go to work. Are cat stoves better suited to someone who is at home more?
--> Have "hybrid" catalytic stove, find I can go from a cold start to engaging the catalyst in about 25-35 minutes depending on how well I'm doing. I'm far from a perfect.

5) I like the idea of the cat extending burn times, and it sucks to have to replace so often, but if it is that much more efficient and would helo to spread out the heat longer, I see that as a benefit. Not sure if I'm over thinking things (I habe a tendency to do that)...but I like to know the details of what I'm potentially getting into.
--> Like most things, it's routine maintenance, but I've come to the conclusion that it is well worth it.

6) I watched another vid today on a soapstone stove. I think I like the "mellowing out the heat" of the stone stove vs steel/ci. One of my concerns is the stove room is about 19 x 19, on one end of the house, with only one small doorway and a window leading to the rest of the house (it was a 2 step split level porch enclosed and finished by previous owners). It is our main living/tv room, so I would prefer to not have it too hot. Not sure if a soapstone and/or cat stove would help regulate. And have read the tip on here from Backwoods Savage and others of the fan on far side blowing cool floor air towards stove room.
--> Have only heard good things of Soapstone stoves, but don't have one myself so I can't honestly reply- but I can tell you that blowing cold air from across the room towards the stove is the right move.

(My replies aren't gospel- just my honest opinion from experience and the advice I've received from others on this site. Hope some of this helps.)

 

Great questions Eckie, and def not overthinking it. I've thought those very same questions. I am not in a position to upgrade but when am dreaming of hitting the lottery (I have to start playing first) I often think if switching to a cat stove. I love the idea of slow and steady, waking up in the morning loading up before work and not having to load up again till that evening before bed.

 

I've read that on some stoves, when the cat is not engaged it is still in the line of fire, "literally"...and can be damaged by flame impingement...and also get dirty from smoke that is not burnt off...but some stoves, when the cat is disengaged it is in a protected spot where the fire and smoke won't get to it.
Maybe someone will know which models are which...

 

My Woodstock it sticks back can be run without it.. BuT increased wood and creosote etc etc

 

Shoulder season once a day fill ups here. In your area 2x a day is a cooold snap!!

 

That is exactly the biggest difference between the stoves- the time from the start (cold start or a full reload on a good bed of hot coals) to when the stove can be left alone and run along on a steady burn. And exactly as you said, it is in the morning when this matters the most because the evening reload happens when most of us are home and free to tend the stove a little bit for some time. But in the morning, the goal is to fully load the stove and get it to that long, slow, steady- state burn before having to leave the house.

Both stoves start off the same way- either a load of fresh splits on a hot bed of coals, or a full load of splits and kindling and a match. The difference is that once the non- cat. stove is fully engaged, it can almost always be damped down for the long burn and while it might smoke somewhat heavily, eventually it will stabilize and burn reasonably efficiently even if it is an hour or two after the start (because it was damped down so quickly). A cat. stove, on the other hand, really has to get the majority of the entire fuel load, meaning the entire new load of splits, up to temp. before it can be reliably damped down and the combustor lit and running. If a cat. stove is not well- engaged and pretty warm when it is damped, it can 'stall', meaning the cat. will not light (or go out if it did light) and the stove will smolder through the entire load of wood, burning dirty and making a mess of the chimney while spewing out a lot of smoke. And there is a minimum time to do that and it is absolutely not three minutes. I can usually get my stove up and running, fully damped for the long burn in 30 minutes but sometimes it takes longer though never more than an hour.

This is also where the cat.'s age comes in- the newer the cat. is, the sooner and easier it will light and stay lit when re-loading a stove with a hot bed of coals. With a new cat., I can load the stove then close the damper and cat. bypass immediately and it will light and burn the particulates from the fire (the 'smoke'). But as the cat. ages, this becomes more difficult until it just will not light in that manner and I have to keep the bypass open and the draft far more open to better engage the new splits in the fire. This always occurs in the second year though sometimes in one burning season starting with a new cat.

A non- cat. stove burn dirtier and less efficiently under the best conditions used on both stove types but it is also not as sensitive to the start up time or procedure. Not to say it is effortless to run a non- cat. stove either and they can and often are miss- used to smolder and make an inefficient and filthy burn. The big difference, at least in my experience, is that cat. type stoves tend to 'sneak up on me' more often when I think they are running well only to have the cat. go out and smolder.

So much like that video you posted in the beginning of this thread: Cat. based stoves are more efficient (at max. efficiency) and will give a longer, slower and more controlled burn while still burning extremely cleanly, which non- cat. stoves are more tolerant of not being set quite right or not being tended to quite long enough on a reload.

All of that said, after decades of using wood stoves of various types, I prefer and own a cat. based stove to take advantage of the better efficiency and overall cleaner running properties. I accept the flaws in operation that go with a cat. stove, as well as the expense of buying new cat.s periodically to keep them running correctly.

As to the soapstone, that too is a double- edged sword. Having one soapstone lined stove (the current Ideal Steel), I find it does tend to radiate heat somewhat more evenly. The downside is that it also takes a fair amount of wood to bring it up to a useful temperature; where a non- lined stove will put out a bit of heat with nothing but a cardboard fire, the stone lined stove produces no useable or noticeable heat from the same amount of fuel. It takes a number of fair sized splits, burning well, to begin to produce some heat into the room the stove is in. The problem with this is when it is just chilly out and too warm for a running fire- by the time the stove is warm, the house is comfortable but over the next couple of hours, the stove continues to radiate heat so that it is too warm. This really only happens when it is above, say, 50F outside and we want a very small fire to just chase the chill away. The rest of the year, I believe the soapstone is a benefit although certainly nothing extraordinary, at least in my opinion.

One thing I always suggest to anyone considering a cat. stove to check the price of a replacement combustor. And preferably NOT with the salesman selling the stove. Most of us find they do not last anywhere near six years some mfg.'s claim, never mind the ten years others claim. Look around the 'Net for a realistic price for a new combustor because again, a salesperson may wave it off with a casual 'Maybe around $100 to $150', which could easily be $350 in real dollars.

And again, study- up on this on your own and balance all opinions before making your decision (mine included, of course!). It is not really a straight forward choice, and in the end, you have to pick the benefits and the detriments of each type that you can live with vs. though you cannot live with, or at least the ones you want or want to avoid.

Best of luck with your research and your stove choice.

Brian

 

Fixed it for ya'.

A lot of us live in more temperate climates where shoulder season involves wearing a sweatshirt instead of a tee shirt to go outside.....

 

Come up north, it was 55 today loaded stove last night will still have coals in morning!

 

excellent write up BDF! I went with non-cat. I don't want a stove that requires more maintenance than absolutely necessary.
Think SHTF scenario.. Sure it might burn cleaner but those numbers to me like mpg don't mean anything.. It's all controlled lab tests for one; to get it approved.
2) I process my own wood, I don't buy it. So why do I want to pay extra money every X amount of years to keep my stove running? I don't .
wood stoves are carbon neutral period cat or non cat..
as for particulate matter.. I doubt my stove will ever release as much soot ( in it's entire lifetime!) as these new diesels out there that the kids are installing defeat devices in and rolling coal.
or one cargo ship crossing from China..
Heck it's probably why kids have so many allergies, they don't get to sniff enough wood smoke.

 

Guys realize BDF is an engineer/ inventor has built his own woodstove and a generally just a smart fellow!! I also consider him a friend is any stove or any Device perfect NO!
BUT for me a cat stove is the cat’s meow!

if SHTF and I can’t get a cat I will burn more wood and survive as hybrid technology will work

 

think you misunderstood where I was coming from.

 

No I think I get ya, I might have a papa bear fisher in reserve just in case. Brian BDF is an excellent knowledge base. If I didn’t live where I do with physical ailments I have. In an area where 30% have / use wood for supplemental heat (read hard to buy here). Also green mountain state with many environmentalists

 

Thanks for the kind words. As to the stove, I believe you did the exact right thing for you based on sound reasoning. You chose what is important to you (low maintenance) and chose a stove that delivers that best. This is what I encourage everyone to do- think about how and why they will be buying and using a wood stove and then pick the things they want or have to have vs. the things they do not want or cannot live with. The stoves that are left after these choices are the ones to chose from.

 

For what it's worth- when I got married I had an old VC Vigilant in my home. Bulletproof but hard to control up/down/left/right. Peaks and valleys like crazy. I loved it, but my wife (once we got married) wasn't a fan. She was dressed like a crewman on Ernest Shackleton's expedition to the south pole she was so cold.
Got a cat stove now that I put wood in about 7 hours ago and she's walking around in... much less.