Quadrafire cb1200 freestanding help

Hi all. In desperate need of some ideas. I was called by a friend to help him with his failing quad cb1200. He had numerous repairmen out and none of them could get it to even light. They threw the parts cannon at it and replaced the combustion blower, incorrect door gasket and lightly vaccumed it. he was less than happy.

History - He does not do maintenance on it except calling someone for annual cleanings. burns 4-5 tons a year. He does not get dirty. I know, what can you do.

I found the stove in poor shape. The skeleton is good, no warped metal no rust, but the firepot was overflowed, the ashpan was so overflowed the ignitor chamber was packed with ash. the heat tube cleaning rods had never been pulled and were frozen.

what I did. super thorough cleaning. LBT. Scraping. vacuuming, compressed air. unfroze heat exchanger cleaning pulls. wire brushed burn bot clean. replaced non existent burn pot gasket. Door and ashpan failed dollar bill test miserably. replaced door and ashpan gaskets. adjusted clamps. ingitor not working. replaced ignitor. opened chamber of combustion blower and vacuumed plus compressed air. Unclogged line to vacuum switch (full of fines). emptied hopper. vacuumed hopper. Stove is straight vented right out the back, 0 elbows.
I took off the impingment plates and vacummed and used compressed air behind there. wire brushed what i could. Unjammed pot emptying mechanism.

Tested stove and it lit within 5 minutes. held a flame but in my opinion not the cyclonic energetic flame it should have. let it burn for a few hours. seemed ok, convection blower came on, was hot but not as hot as i think it should be. burn pot was level and not filling.

After i left - he said the flame suddenly died. Has trouble again auto igniting. Burn pot overflowing again (this is the same day i did all this). When he manually lights the fire, it stays on then dies. I am assuming the vacuum switch is finicky. I believe he still has an air leakage but it passes any tests i can think of for leaks. There are no air obstructions in the combustion path. I can see the comb. blower spinning hard when i remove the inspection cover on the right side. its clean in there.

What could be causing his weak flame? I even adjusted the pellet feed slider to lean it out a bit (the one in the hopper) but did not help.

He insisted i order a new thermocouple and new vacuum switch. which i havent put in yet but he wants them. cant hurt. Personally I believe theres an air leak because there should be much more air flowing through the pot. He's out of work and im trying to help him heat his house. when the stove does run, it cant keep the temp up nevermind raise it. It used to when new.

I hope i havent left out anything. Im open to any ideas at this point. I do not believe he has a bad control board and the auger motor seems strong and quiet. The vacuum tube is in good shape.

I've never seen a stove in this bad operating condition and i have worked on cb1200's before as well as other models for friends. never had issues.

Thanks in advance all!

 

Calling the Pellet Stove Monkey Master slvrblkk

 

Check the area where the OAK comes into/underneath the firepot. There's probably a ton of ash that fell in there restricting the airflow into the pot. You will need a small flexible hose to try an clean/vacuum that area out. If you tip the stove up on end a bit, you can look under it and see if there is ash laying on the floor under the stove...if there is, there's your sign.

 

you mean the area with the access cover in the front? where one would go to access the ignitor? i checked that initially. packed tight with ash. cleaned it really well, removed burn pot, installed new ignitor which was bad, and new gasket.

There is a new symptom. There is no initial pellet dump anymore at first call for heat. going to check it out sunday. The stove is getting worse. I cleaned the entire thing really well including compressed air and LBT. anyone know the exact air path in this stove?

 

The more i think about it the more i believe he still has an airflow issue. I did everything short of placing the stove in a wind tunnel tester hooked up to the exhaust, lol. I got lots out but now im thinking maybe theres one important spot somewhere I might have missed? Passes dollar bill test on all gaskets. Not sure why no more initial pellet dump when there is a call for heat. This guy is my friend, and a great guy but i must admit he is not the type of guy that should be owning a pellet stove. He even despises emptying the ash pan. He has really mucked up the stove good. Aside from wanting to help a friend, it has now become a personal war between the stove and I.

 

Yes that's area BUT the OAK comes in from the bottom of the stove and through the rectangular opening on the back wall behind the firepot. I would bet a lot of $$$ that ash fell into that cavity and is preventing air from coming into the stove. Because that is "probably" blocked is also why you more than likely have a vacuum issue too.

 

I would also replace the snap discs, I had trouble on a stove like that once.

 

Make sure all pot holes are clear. Esp the 8 small ones. 4 in angled bottom part of pot and 4 in front of pot wall. Also make sure there is only a dimes width opening on back side of pot floor. There are two pot floors. Are both closing all the way ? kap

 

pot holes check. cleaned, wire brushed the pot and used round diamond file on holes until i saw metal. (work in a machine shop (as IT and an accountant but you learn a lot) both flaps on pot close all the way.

most promising info so far is the oak opening being plugged. i never thought to look there. I head over tomorrow at 10 am. First thing im going to check is that spot. I really hope i find it plugged and that solves it all. If anyone has any last minute advice for me now is the time.

This stove has so many new parts and all new gaskets and there is just something awry with it still. I have a new thermocouple and new vacuum switch to bring with me. I dont have any snap discs but that is ok, I dont think the fire has been hot enough to bring the stove up to temp. I have been able to keep it running long enough for the convection blower to turn on and stay on.

I am also armed with an extech instant read infrared thermometer this time. What temps should i expect to see out of the convection blower? on my englanders i get ~265f on a low setting

 

Good luck, hope it's easy and you get it going!

 

Well, its fixed. Auto lights off the stat, stays running and blows ~370 degree air roughly depending on where i aim the infrared thermometer.
Verified vacuum switch was bad. it was. replaced, still had issue. Verified thermocouple was bad. obviously was just by looking at it. replaced. still had an airflow issue. I lit incense in the stove while it was off and waited.
What do i see? smoke coming from all around the glass! the door gasket was new but not the glass. replaced the gasket all around the glass and the stove finally came to life!

Thanks to all and your help and suggestions. I waited 3 hours and watch the house go from 58 to 65 before i left. I'd call that solved

 

Wow that is very good work! Good to know! We all will learn from your experience! Thanks for being soo diligent! Amazing!

 

btw thank you slvrblkk. i dont know if it was the issue but i vacuumed that spot you mentioned - accessed it through the ignitor access door and then i moved the stove and there was mysteriously ash underneath the stove. then i remembered your post. So i think between sealing all the leaks and freeing up the oak and replacing all the bum components i finally was successful. I wish i could have lifted the stove or tipped it to check for sure but i was alone and my friend isnt strong enough to do that.

 

Nice work

 

Update:

Since i was last there, he has been super happy with his stove. It's been auto igniting, heating the house, strong flame. Sent me an email couldnt thank me enough. Today i get the call. Window is so black you cant tell if there is a flame. Will not auto ignite, will not drop pellets on startup, not even with the reset button. He manually added a cup of pellets and lit them, which was enough heat to turn on the convection blower but still no pellets falling.

Last I left the stove (~ mid december) stove was sparkling clean, all gaskets airtight. perfect condition. the auger seemed strong, looked clean and not all that old. What would be stopping the initial pellet drop on startup besides a bad auger motor or control board? Im going to test for 120v at the auger motor, and if i find it and the auger motor is not turning, there is my answer - but what if i dont? To my understanding the initial pellet drop isn't dependent on vacuum or safety switches, its just a timed drop. Am i wrong? I have a feeling i wont find 120v at the auger motor on this pita stove.

yes he has maintenance issues as in not doing it. Best i can get out of him is to pull the lever. he wont even dump the ashpan but he will slide it out and scoop out the ashes. weird, i know. may explain the blackened glass. btw when i left all soot was a light gray like it should be. more concerned about no initial pellet dump.

any help or things to keep an eye out for is appreciated. The control board BTW was replaced about a year ago - not by me. I know that doesnt mean anything they can even be doa.

 

Turns out he had the mother of all auger jams, compounded by him hitting the reset button 197,216 times. the force reformed the pellets into a little log shaped like the auger tube. his house was freezing because he wont use his propane, which is making his recent hip replacement hurt even more.

 

OMG....ALWAYS something!!!

 

Well, i always go there thinking the worst, ready for some complicated diagnosis. I was quite happy to find an auger jam. i poked away at it until it was sawdust pieces and vacuumed it up. Lets see why his stove wont work next weekend.

 

Great,DR!. My Integra used to get auger jams, from the fines, but that was back when i really abused it. It also wore out the auger bushings. Might want to check them.

 

No Auger Busgings on Quad, just a hole in a high temp plastic block. Usually quad augers do not jam, but a dirty auger and a weak feed motor may contribute to what happened or it may be fine.
In many of my quad feed motor cases the feed motor is noisy before it fails.