Progress Hybrid rolling some awesome secondaries

Stove is almost black now about 20 minutes later.

 

Opening windows now, this stove puts out the heat....

 

Totally black stove.

 

The black box club. Gotta love it.

 

I have to ask...black because the glass is smoked up, or black because she’s burning that slow?

 

Nice. Glad you are liking that stove.

 

It isn’t my pic but I do have a Progress Hybrid. It is at the stage where the catalyst is doing the burning. No flame from secondaries or flame from the wood. Smoke and particles are being ignited and used as heat from the cat. Chimney should still be putting out little to no smoke.
Offer still stands Hoytman, contact me and we will set up a visit.

 

Have some things to finish up and then I’ll get in touch with you.

 

It's burning that slow, I saw a flicker of flame every once in a while.

 

I have to wonder when thinking about this "black out"... of the Progress...and even similar stoves...other hybrids...and the Blaze King, King model...all using catalysts.

I realize someone said they seen a flicker of flame and that tells me the glass is at least somewhat clean. That said, …

...IF the windows in some of these stoves are indeed getting black glass, then it would seem the catalyst isn't doing it's job fully. Now, I'm not saying the Progress windows will totally get all black with soot/creosote...but if they are...the catalyst can't really be burning all of the smoke in any of these brands of stoves. BK's windows will blacken when the CAT is engaged over a long burn. This, to me, sort of defeats the purpose of having glass to begin with, let alone an air wash, let alone catalysts and regulations to begin with. BK's have had some issues with clogging a new liner shut in a short amount of time...and for this reason...I am still burning a smoke dragon. I don't want to mess with a liner, replacing cats, paying through the nose for a stove, if it's not going to provide me a user-friendly experience.

The only variable I can't control with regard to any stove brand making glass black with soot, or clogging chimneys, is whether or not a person reports correct information with regard to dry wood. What they think is dry may not really be dry enough for these stoves, or any stove.

 

My stove never gets black glass but I always burn seasoned wood. I think of it like looking at my house during night time when the lights are off. It looks like black glass with a reflection of the outside. When someone turns on a light everything shows up clearly. I think the term black glass can be used in reference to a bad burn or reference to a clean burn without flames or secondaries.

 

Truly dry wood = a much cleaner viewing window and vent sys. at my place. Its really a pleasure to burn dry stuff compared to when I first started out! Live and learn.

 

I disagree. Burning wood will produce smoke in the firebox. The cat burns the smoke before it enters the chimney, keeping the chimney clean and producing BTU's. An effective air wash keeps the smoke off the glass while its still in the firebox.

 

This explains everything I was wondering about.

 

Burning wood certainly does produce smoke in the firebox. However, if glass is turning black, either the stove/cat is at fault, or the wood is a fault, or the air wash is at fault. Can't have it both ways. My point is...that unless the wood is super dry...most cats and/or stove designs can’t handle the amount of smoke...producing glass you can’t see through in modern stoves. Lots of companies claim an effective air wash. If the glass is clean on any brand stove while in low burn, with dry wood, then there's no concern. If you’re certain the wood is dry enough as checked with a moisture meter, etc., and glass is still darkened by smoke during a low burn...then I’d be suspect of stove design and/or the 2ndaries...the catalyst or both because they are not doing their job.

That said, I’m certain the local BK dealer is burning dry wood in a demo stove...and the glass is not ideal unless they clean it or burn it high enough, long enough, to burn off the glass.

I don’t buy manufacturers claims of clean glass during low burn if they have to burn it off or clean the glass by hand. I can do all of that with my “smoke dragon” that’s not a smoke dragon if I have dry wood. Most manufacturers these days call dry wood 15%-20%...and I’m not so convinced that’s dry enough with some stoves/models.

You say the smoke is in the box before the catalyst...keeping the chimney clean. Yes, it suppose to work that way, but I still see and hear/read about a lot of dirty glass...which is why I asked for clarification on the WS Progress. That said, does dry wood produce a clean chimney from even old stoves? Yes. So, why are some stoves with all this new technology still having creosote issues in chimneys? Probably because wood isn’t as dry as people think it is AND in some instances because the secondaries, the catalyst, or both cannot keep up with the amount of smoke within the firebox. This is where patience and research pay off. I’ve been researching for nearly 4 years. I’ve narrowed choices down quite a bit...

 

The catalyst burns up the smoke as it leaves the firebox just before the chimney connection. Whether or not the smoke in the firebox has a chance to set up as a black layer inside the firebox has nothing to do with the cat. It is not the cat's job to keep the glass clean. It is the cat's job to prevent that smoke from leaving the firebox and it can do a dang good job in any of the stoves made by BK or Woodstock.

I own the famed dirty glass BK and run it at very low settings for the majority of my 9 month burning season and even burn pitchy softwoods! Yes, my glass always has some discoloration that doesn't burn off but most of the glass is amber, about 1/3 is totally clear, and only the very bottom corners (less than 1/4) ever gets completely gunked over.

My noncat is a majorly hot burning clean stove. Much lower emissions rating than the BK. That glass stays clean except for white fly ash.

 

High beam, I’m not suggesting all BK’s or other brands fit what I’ve said. I’m basing that from seeing a few BK stoves. I know it may have been written and sounded like I was meaning it as a blanket statement, but that’s not what I meant. Trying type on a cell phone which puts some limits on what I say and the speed I can write it.

It may seem strange but from your comments and others the NC-30 has edged out a King model for me...which had been my top choice. Now it’s between a WSP, NC-30, a Kuma, and a Lopi. The NC-30 seems to be an underdog compared to others, but research has consistently put it back in the top 5-6 along with a Drolet or two. Factor costs and the England’s/ Drolet are hard to even match.

 

It may or may not have anything to do with the cat...I agree. However, I does have to do with the air wash/stove design, or both. The point...if it’s burning it like it should...then it should consume it all. All the air wash is really doing is keeping it away from the glass. Consuming it all...is the goal of regulators and stove makers. No? We’re not there yet I know...but some makers are getting close. There are those that aren’t close, advertise clean glass with little emissions...yet those stoves can’t do both...the glass is dirty all the time, even with their emission numbers. That leaves the cat, and the air wash, and over-all stove design as an issue even with their numbers. If the emission numbers are good and the glass is always black then the air wash AND the cat are to blame. Numbers don’t lie and neither does the glass.

By the way, I can’t seem to find Englander’s near me to go look at...even at the box stores.