ive been buying premixed fuel in a five gallon jug. Helps keep the saws running if they get infrequent use. Gonna be doing a whole lot of cutting this summer. I also have a couple gallons of high quality Polaris 2 stroke oil leftover from the snowmobiles. That would go a long way with pump gas. Would you use it? I’m not particularly cheap but I also appreciate using things that will otherwise go to waste.
If it’s for air cooled two cycles ,not tcw3 ,I can't see why not . Mix up a batch ,and test a few saws to see how they like it ,and adjust the carbs to thenew mix .
Not sure what tcw3 denotes. Probably water cooled which is what the sleds were. Never considered there’s a difference between air and water as far as oil goes.
Water cooled engines run cooler. Air cooled 13000 RPM engines need JASO FD or ISO EGD rating (to be sure it's high enough quality). Some oils don't list rating but are still high enough quality - they didn't pay to be tested. Read your Polaris label.
Choosing an Oil for Two-cycle Engines I personally use Pennzoil for Air cooled. Aircooled oil has an ash content that water cooled 2cycle oil doesn't. This is supposed to help with the higher and irregular temps seen by aircooled engines. Mike Maddox did a study/test years ago using (4) Rotax 503s. I found the article and saved it to my Google drive and PDF is available at the link below if you're interested. It shows how water and air cooled oils perform differently. Here's one screenshot. Blue is Air cooled 2 cycle Pennzoil, red is water cooled 2cycle Penn. oil. I personally know Mike as well as his daughter. In fact, I will be seeing her at a conference next month in Oklahoma City. I usually only see Mike at the national conference but now that he's retired, he might show up at the regional.
I wouldn't run it it it's not for air cooled 2 stroke motors. Saws are to expensive to take a chance. JMO.
Wc = water cooled. I wouldn't use it on a chainsaw. Buy amsoil sabre and run it at 50:1 and you'll be fine. It smells good too.
Another oil thread the other side of the two stroke oil argument is what ratio is best? And are you mixing accurately. I have mixed with a ratio rite cup since the 80's, I know the individual bottles of oil are supposed to be for one gallon or 5 gallons or whatever, but what if the oil maker shorted a bottle by 1.5 ounces.? Some love 50:1 but I'm a stickler for 40:1 or meebe 30:1 in older saws.
I find it hard to believe that Polaris makes oil that is for "water cooled" only...maybe they do...but I'd be surprised. I've been running Yamalube 2 in every 2 stroke I own for many years...no problems. Yamalube 2 is recommended for all Yamaha 2 strokes...air or water cooled...bottom line, I'd run it.
I hear your argument, and I've done the same as well,... in sleds. Now I've got little experience with FA cooled sleds, but fans and liquids I've got a lot. The fan and liquid cooling are much better at cooling than FA. Sleds also run in winter for the most part. Yes saws are sort of fan cooled, but they have zero ram air cooling from being in motion of any meaningful amount. I draw my line at not using oil designed for water cooled engines on power tools. Stihl and other brands say to not use oil designed for water cooled engines on their saws. TC-W3 in Stihl Chainsaw?
I was always taught (back in m 2-stroke motorcycle days) that less oil (to and extent, obviously) runs cooler as the fuel going through tended to cool better. Has something changed or was i taught wrong all these years? On edit: Just confirmed with my Brother in law (US importer for one of the Euro dirt bike companies) on this. More fuel equals more cooling. More oil i the mix will make 2 strokes run warmer.
Yes, but you still need a ratio of 14.6 parts of air to 1 part gas for it to burn effectively (12.6 is best for power, while 15.5 is best for economy). As soon as you retune, you get your cooling back, plus the added lubrication for the bearings. The whole 50:1 ratio is nothing more than a way to circumvent epa regs. The pistons last fine with 50:1 as long as the tune is ok, but the bearings suffer. Particularly in the stratified saws that are now being produced. But like others have said, the most important thing for most users is to make sure there's at least some oil in the gas . Another way to know your gas has oil in it is like The Wood Wolverine mentioned above. There's no mistaking the scent of Klotz while it's burning. Simply amazing
but on your retune, you are still running the same oil ratio, so technically you could still run cooler with less oil. And I don't believe you are taking into consideration that most of the quality oils made these days are not the oils we have 25 years ago. 50, 60 and even 70:1 is the norm these days for many oils. For years, I ran 2 stroke motorcycles at 100:1 with Amsoil without one single lubrication problem. Some of the racers I knew ran it at 200:1 without problems back in the day. The oil type dictates the ratio, not typically the engine.
Not following. If air needs the correct ratio of gas to burn effectively, then it doesn't matter how much oil is there. As soon as the mix hits the hot engine, the gasoline evaporates and the oil forms into droplets in the crankcase, eventually to be pushed up and burned. And more heat isn't a bad thing up to a point. The added heat could have been from not retuning, or from the extra oil sealing the rings and making more power. I'm only going off what I see in my garage. I see the insides of 100 chainsaws or so per year. Some of them are scored, some need bearings, and some are spotless and only came in for port work. The saws that were run on 50:1 are always dry inside. Those run at 32:1 always have residual oil on the bearings and piston. I see quite a few that are only 3 or 4 years old and the bearings are shot. They're mostly commercial firewood or tree service saws, so they get used probably 300 hours per year. Usually the plastic bearing retainer in many of the newer saws gets hot and breaks or melts. Most oils from 30 years ago didn't have the detergents in them like they do today (which also led to the use of higher ratios to reduce plug fouling), and would leave a lot of carbon buildup. Some oils still do, but many of them burn quite clean and only leave behind a thin greasy layer that can be wiped off with your finger. Not trying to be argumentative here. Just trying to show my experiences that I've seen in the last 5 or 6 years. Most home firewood cutters get many years out of a saw, so they keep doing what they're doing. In reality, those saws only get used 20 or 30 hours per year, and they last just fine using the recommended ratios.
huskihl , not arguing either. I'm here to learn new things. The point I was trying to make is that the more oil in the mix, the hotter the engine will run, because of less fuel running through the engine. I see so many people that think it's the opposite.
Without retuning, yes. If a 2 stroke motor was tuned on the edge on 50:1, and a batch of 25:1 was mixed up, there is less fuel per unit flowing through the carb that gets mixed with the same air as before. Without retuning, even though you added more oil, the fuel to air ratio becomes leaner and will run hotter and could score the piston
