In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Stumped on Pole Building Heat....

Discussion in 'Chainsaws and Power Equipment' started by Carbine, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Carbine

    Carbine

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    3,864
    Location:
    Ohio
    I have a well insulated 32x30 Morton Building... and as a test this past month, I plugged in my 110 electric space heater to see how it would affect my electic bill (continuous. Well it did, by 100 bucks. I dont have nat gas available, its either electric or propane. Believe it or not, that 110 plug in will keep this building comfortable (did I say its well insulated?), about 60 when its in the upper 20s to low 30s, and I figure about 45 to 50 when its in the single digits.
    Im fine with the temp I am keeping it at, but if I can do the same thing with propane for less... and not give First Energy a dime, I am all for it.
     
  2. basod

    basod

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    5,048
    Likes Received:
    20,841
    Location:
    Mount Cheaha AL
    Do you know what your kw/hr rate is and heater kw-hr rating?
    At 15 cents- somewhat average
    $100/.15/30days/24hrs=.93kw/hr
    Depending on propane costs in you area we can run the calculations to see if it would better serve you
     
  3. Fanatical1

    Fanatical1

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,688
    Likes Received:
    12,291
    Location:
    Ohio
    I have a pole barn and heat it with propane, but only turn it on when needed. It's pretty well insulated also and stays roughly 20- 30 degrees warmer inside than outside, most likely due to it being on a slab and well insulated.

    A 110 electric heater at 1500 watts produces 5,000 BTU's per hour.

    I have inferred radiant heating tubes that use 125,000 BTU's per hour. It heats things (mass) and no so much the air, so you feel warm really quickly (10 minutes) when using the garage. If I use the garage a lot in the winter it adds about $50.00/ month to the propane bill, but it's really warm when doing so.

    I guess it comes down to how often you need it heated up. I would guess propane might be your most economical choice, unless you want a woodstove?

    Here's a pic...

    image.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    Hammy, bear 1998, brenndatomu and 9 others like this.
  4. Carbine

    Carbine

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    3,864
    Location:
    Ohio
    I keep my truck, some of my toys, and a machine/fab shop in there. I'd rather keep it at temp at all times, even if its on 55 degrees or so.
     
    Hammy, bear 1998, brenndatomu and 3 others like this.
  5. Carbine

    Carbine

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    3,864
    Location:
    Ohio
    Thank you kind sir. It's a 1000w/1250w/1500w that I normally run on 1000w.

    EDIT* 5.21 cents per kwh.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    Hammy, bear 1998, brenndatomu and 4 others like this.
  6. Maina

    Maina

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,618
    Likes Received:
    11,317
    Location:
    Maine
    That’s a perfect application for a heat pump. Here’s a calculator you can put your local figures into for cost comparison purposes. Residential Heating System Cost Calculator | Efficiency Maine
    Around here propane is the most expensive option by far with electric baseboard pretty close by. Wood is the least with heat pumps a close second.
     
  7. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    18,256
    Likes Received:
    119,595
    Location:
    Vermont
    Only because this is FHC. Is a pellet stove an option.. If not agree with Maina above..
     
    Hammy, bear 1998, Maina and 5 others like this.
  8. papadave

    papadave

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,181
    Likes Received:
    82,470
    Location:
    Right where I want to be.
    Mini-split?
     
    Hammy, bear 1998, Maina and 6 others like this.
  9. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    18,256
    Likes Received:
    119,595
    Location:
    Vermont
    Ductless mini are in link. With his low cost of electric about $435 a year assuming heat only not AC.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    Hammy, bear 1998, Maina and 5 others like this.
  10. papadave

    papadave

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,181
    Likes Received:
    82,470
    Location:
    Right where I want to be.
    Well, that's what I get for not going to the link. :headbang:
     
    Hammy, bear 1998, Maina and 4 others like this.
  11. basod

    basod

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    5,048
    Likes Received:
    20,841
    Location:
    Mount Cheaha AL
    That's some cheap electric - don't complain to much about the electric company sticking it to you

    So if it was truly all $100 increase just to the shop - we may be guessing here unless it has its own meter base?

    $100/.0521$/kWhr/30days/24hrs = 2.72kw/hr
    Either the heater is able to pull in excess of its designed max 1500w(1.5kwhr) or we have some other usage contributing to the increase - lighting tools and what not due to the warmer temps allowing a better work environment.
    To reverse just to the heater cost:
    run Max 1500w for 30days: 1.5x24x30x.0521=$56.28 for a month

    1kW is 3412btu
    Assume 1.5kW-hr is decent input heat as you've stated
    1.5x3412btu = 5118btu
    Propane has 91,600btu/gal - equates to 17.9 hrs/gal, None of this would equate to real world application as you'd likely oversize to a 10kbtu or 30k for your shop size (not 5.1k)
    But apples to apples with propane running ~$2.40/gal

    30daysX24hrs/17.9hrs/gal X $2.40/gal = $95.53/month

    You're net cheaper to run the electric space heater - we can revisit the capital costs of a heat pump which will more efficiently use the electricity...
    -time for a beer
     
    mike bayerl, Chvymn99, Hammy and 7 others like this.
  12. Carbine

    Carbine

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    3,864
    Location:
    Ohio
    You are over the top, thank you Basod! I didnt factor in peak charges, thats probably why its a little "off". Its not on its own meter, I suspect the house could have had some variance over last month as well.
     
    Chvymn99, Hammy, brenndatomu and 3 others like this.
  13. basod

    basod

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    5,048
    Likes Received:
    20,841
    Location:
    Mount Cheaha AL
    No problem- I do heat balance stuff for a living.
    My younger brother sells propane, Affectionately refer to him as Hank Hill.
     
  14. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    23,442
    Likes Received:
    150,622
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    And propane accessories? :whistle: ;) :rofl: :lol:
    I loved that show...:thumbs:
     
  15. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    23,442
    Likes Received:
    150,622
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    I take it a wood stove is out? Would still need to run the electric heat to even out the low spots I suppose...but the stove could do most of the heavy lifting. If you can't have or don't want a stove in there, how about one of those outdoor forced air wood furnaces?
     
    Chvymn99, Hammy, Maina and 5 others like this.
  16. JustWood

    JustWood Guest

    $56 or $100
    That's cheap heat for a building that size!
    I'd stick with the electric. No condensation, no worries about reordering or running out, no regulator freeze ups, no worries about line or tank leaks, etc . Set it and forget it .
     
  17. BranBranTheNWman

    BranBranTheNWman

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    416
    Location:
    Maple Falls, Washington
    Holy cow that's cheap. Mine is .11 to .15 cents kwh
     
  18. Carbine

    Carbine

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    3,864
    Location:
    Ohio
    I store gas in there , and work on/service plenty of small engines in there as well. Id never even consider it an option (even as much as I love wood heat). I do however go through 7 cords a year in the house lol.
     
  19. basod

    basod

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    5,048
    Likes Received:
    20,841
    Location:
    Mount Cheaha AL
    He deals in bulk industrial accounts juggles a bunch of commercial accounts including construction where they need temporary heat for completing indoor spaces.
     
    Hammy, amateur cutter and brenndatomu like this.
  20. billb3

    billb3

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    10,318
    Likes Received:
    53,269
    Location:
    SE Mass
    Electricity here is cheap too. 11¢/kWh.
    Of course delivery is 19¢/kWh. Plus $7.00 a month for the privilege of being connected.


    mini splits and solar panels sound good to me for sticking it to the electric consortium.