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Stove U P S babble

Discussion in 'Pellet Stoves, Pellet Fireplaces, Pellet Furnaces' started by jtakeman, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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    Welp it works!!
    IMG_1153.JPG

    Big batteries aren't hooked up yet. Waiting for the internals to fully charge. Stove is plugged in and The mini minute or so test after unplugging the UPS worked. No funky noises from the beast.

    Oldly though, It may not be big enough as when I started up the stove I got a red overload light while the auger-igniter-air pump were running. Yellow once the auger stopped feeding pellets and flashed red on every pellet feed cycle. Once it went through its start up cycle it went green(as seen in pic's). Ugh!!

    I would have thought 600watt would have been plenty?? Welp was planning a UPS for the cable box in the living room, I suppose This should handle that and the telly. Off to see what a 800watt gonna set us back! :(

    :makeitrain"
     
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  2. CleanFire

    CleanFire

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    JT, you're probably not gonna want to hear this, but ...

    Rule of thumb here for UPS sizing is (3x) bigger vs. max wattage draw of unit - (2x) "works", but dogs under motor startup load. * This is also true for IT installs that have "spinning platter" drives.. go figure. :loco: :crazy::D

    Go big JT - 1,250W or bigger.

    Hope this helps, Rob
     
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  3. CleanFire

    CleanFire

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    JT, if that was here - I'd be real careful trying to run the stove from cold-start w/ the external batteries hooked up - you said it cuts total wattage available to (450) watts, if I read above correctly ..

    Specs on that UPS are good (90% RMS @ rated load), and it's showing that by alerting you to overload condition w/ the internal batteries @ stove startup / handling that load currently -

    but cutting down total available w/ the external batteries installed may overwhelm the circuitry in that unit.

    * Before trying to run the stove w/ the external batteries installed, I would run some tests with (another) device that I know draws 450-500 watts and observc the UPS / killawatt Meter 0 to have a good comfort level b4 hooking up the fire-breathing Enviro Dragon to it.
     
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  4. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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    Agreed, Just using it for the blips for now. I have not connected the externals yet. I got this unit cheap and I can use it else where in the house(PC-AV ect), And don't wanna wreck it.

    Ouch! I likely can't afford that big "new". Maybe a used or recon to ease the ouchie.

    Off to CL and fleabay to search a deal.
     
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  5. CleanFire

    CleanFire

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    I'll keep an eye out for 'ya too JT - on the web & locally. :yes:
     
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  6. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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    Thank Rob!! :) If I stay above say 800w and the unit has a load rating higher than 90% I should be good?? I see the Tripp lite has the SU1000RTXL2UA very similar too what I have and still has 24v internals. Most of the bigger units 1300va have 36v to 48v internals. Specs below: I think this unit should handle 840w going by the math.

    OUTPUT
    Output Volt Amp Capacity (VA) 1000
    Output kVA Capacity (kVA) 1
    Output Watt Capacity (Watts) 800
    Output Capacity Details OVERLOAD CAPACITY: Supports inverter operation up to 105% load continuously, 125% load for 3 minutes; 150% load for 30 seconds and >150% load for 0.5 seconds before switching to BYPASS (when bypass input voltage and frequency are WITHIN bypass limits) or SHUTDOWN (when bypass input voltage or frequency are OUTSIDE bypass limits)

    Also see link!!

    SmartOnline 120V 1kVA 800W Double Conversion UPS 2U Rack Tower Extended Run SNMPWEBCARD Option USB DB9 Serial (SU1000RTXL2UA) | Tripp Lite

    Asking cus I no wanna mess up again!! :heidi:


    Pic of the fully charged internal battery. Took a while, But it finally has a green status light! :)

    IMG_1155.JPG
     
  7. CleanFire

    CleanFire

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    All the numbers... My head is spinning. :loco: :crazy: :D

    Looks good on paper JT, but I'm going to reach out to a few Network Ops colleagues (friends & former co-workers) that do Datacenter grade Ops to get input & better feedback.

    Gotta Dash to work, I'll take a closer look at above after the carnage clears later this evening / early a.m. :)
     
  8. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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    I was chitchatting with a bud the other day about this, He brought me in this puppy he had kicking around to try. Unfortunately its a PWM, But I'm still gonna try it. That is after I charge up da dead batteries.

    OmniVS1500XL.jpg

    This is rated at 940W, So hopefully it would be a good test to see if something in the 900 watt range will do?? I likely wont try the battery back up(PWM) but may just to see if the beast makes funky noises. Its likely I can score this on the cheap if it works. If not? I still may snag it, Put new batts in it and pop it on one of the PC's..........

    :makeitrain"
     
  9. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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  10. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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    From above linky!!
    6.82A x 119V = 811.58va

    My unit is only rated at 750va! :( Also in the above link it stats to rate it around 75%, So I guess I need some where around the 1014va range or a unit that allows higher than 90% rating of the 1000va. Again I don't want to go too big as the large units require 36v or 48v internal voltage. I would like to stay in the 24v range(ie 2 batteries for auxiliary)........ So the 1000va unit that allows 105%(125% load for 3 minutes) should be right around the size I need. But there's only one sure way to find out!! :whistle:

    Hope this helps anyone else trying to UPS their (large power hog) pellet eater.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  11. briansol

    briansol

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    I have the cyber power 1500 pure sine and it lasts about 30 min. It's enough time to wait to see if it's just a blip, or go 20+ min and shut it down with enough time to run the smoke out.

    The auger uses the most juice. Fans/steady state is about 60 watts, jumps to 120 when the auger turns on my PI40
     
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  12. badbob

    badbob

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    loL,nice thread.I burned wood,living in and building this old cabin wreck.The people that started building this cabin,left a huge amount of baseboard electric heaters, in the basement,I installed them.I installed lots of them.Over the years,I built a block chimney,before that,I had a stove pipe running upwards through 2 floors,above the basement,through the house(dam, the chimney stuff though the roof was expensive).Built a block chimney,put a bigger wood stove in the basement.Spent most summer weekends cutting,spiting wood.Sighed up,and got a propane tank.Bought a propane cooking stove(which made me happy,as I used to cook on gas in restaurants),Put in a DV Empire heater(pilot ignition) in the basement.One winter,I heated the house with just the baseboard heaters.Spring,the bill came,I almost had a heart attack,even though I live where ele. is reasonably cheep.Put a second DV35 in my kitchen/living room floor.Back to burning wood,things got stupid,too far,got tired of buying tractor trailer loads of wood and splitting it up.got a screaming deal on an Austroflamm Intregra.Took experimentation,and cutting some holes,but figured out how to heat the house from the basement up.Started fixing pellet stoves part time,sometimes buying,fixing and selling them.After last injury,kept my Accentra,and put it in the kitchen/livingroom area.Best choice i ever made.Do I need a UPS or generator?NO. I Have 2 35k btu propane units,that work as convection units,just the little blowers do not work.Also,over the years,I have an unvented propane heater,in the basement.Living in a cabin,dirt floor basement,this is not a problem.I have used it 2 times,to warm up basement fast.Sorry for the rant.
     
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  13. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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    Couldn't find anything local, Dug a bit on fleabay. Got me a used Tripp Lite SU1000RTXL2UA for $85 plus shipping. Takes the same batteries as the current unit. Hoping the 1000VA /800 watt and Supports inverter operation up to 105% load continuously, 125% load for 3 minutes is enough.

    Now we wait for da :ups:

    :makeitrain"
     
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  14. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers

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    Sounds like you are on the right track with the latest unit..
     
  15. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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    Gotz the killa watt on my PC now trying to figure out what it needs. I'll do the sons PC later and the to AV centers. Might even add on to our bedroom TV/cable box. I don't think those will all that big. More like desktop power strips. But not gonna chance them with out the tinker test!! :)

    SO far it looks like the one I originally got for the beast will handle my PC and the cable modem/router/switch. Might even be over kill!!
     
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  16. CleanFire

    CleanFire

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    Greetings, missed a few days - sorry, been recovering from overnight shift work. Overnight shifts suck.
    What day is it again ? :D

    JT, feedback I got just re-affirmed the 3x factor, which falls in-line w/ the Eaton link you posted above, along with some extra headroom to account for UPS efficiency variation / motor loading on startup.

    If you can - Try stuffing some fresh batteries in that OMNIVS1500XL unit - and give it a try. :yes:
     
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  17. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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    I must a read your mind, I just came up from testing it. The beast she no likey da PWM sine........ :( She made some funky azz noises and rumbles too. :hair:

    But the OMNIVS1500XL handle the load no issues and ran for a good 2 minutes on back up before I gotz all googled and put the plug back in. Took a few minutes for da noises to settle down.

    Pic for proof. :D

    IMG_1156.JPG

    I'm still gonna offer a fin to my buddy tomorrow. Should make a good PC and half the AV chit in my putter den. :D I'd offer more, But its all I gotz since the pellet spree...... :emb:

    I'll catch a few of his lunches for the next few too. ;)
     
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  18. CleanFire

    CleanFire

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    Hmmm... Could be stepped Sine output, could be low voltage..

    Without knowing the condition of the OMNIVS1500XL unit, how long it was sitting, etc.

    * If you have a DVOM handy, pull the internal battery pack, and voltage check each battery in that unit - to rule out a bad battery in the pack affecting UPS-powered output.
     
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  19. jtakeman

    jtakeman Moderator

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    Unit was still in use before he picked up a new one. It wasn't sitting more than a month(so he claims). I left the battery to charge 24 hours, and checked with a meter. Batteries were 25v and change. No error or red lights on battery back up, Just the yellow/amber warning light that it was on back up power.

    I'm assuming the stove no likey the PWM sine the Omni was emitting? Stove was dandy on the Smart750 and its pure sine conversion. I really only tested to see if I was going to get start up load errors as the Omni had the higher VA rating. New SU1000 is on its way and has pure sine output. I just hope the 1000va is sufficient!! :confused:

    Omni1500 will be added to the PC/AV stuff in my den. Kind of what I was planning anyway. The smart750 will go on my video editing PC and also back up the cable modem/router. Looking at getting Joey a new APC or Tripp lite 1200 to 1500va for his gamer PC. Also gonna get a few of the small tabletop/desktop units for the living room bedroom TV/Cablebox's.

    :vulture: :makeitrain" :ups::tractor::makeitrain":ups::rootintootin:

    :heidi::pain:



    :emptywallet:
     
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  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe

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    By the time you finish forking mulah, you'd have a system like mine with lot's of grunt :rofl: :lol:
    Mind you, you're placing UPS systems everywhere in the household :whistle:
    You're sure wavering from the original plan for just the stove :picard:
    In the past, I bought a complete unit which worked for a couple years and it started to malfunction internally, try to fix that :headbang:
    So I opted to a individual component system which can be repaired easily without replacing the whole unit:D
    You have more and cheaper options than me which is leading you into the direction you've taken :yes:
    Keep it coming as this is becoming a good read thread :smoke:
     
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