Warning.. Long post to follow. OK.. as many may know, I've had water well issues over the past month, and temp fixed it in the meantime. I've been working at fixing the problem properly.. I have.. purchased and installed a new well pump (Convertible jet pump system) purchased new pressure tank replaced all lines connecting well pump and tank to the well lines fought/fixed many leaks made (way too many) trips to a certain home improvement box store So, installed the new pressure tank on Wednesday, and system would still not come up to pressure (60 psi. best it would do was around 43 psi) While trying to address an extremely small drip/leak, had the main 1.25" line blow out on me, and decided that I've had enough of this $#!t, so I call in the well company. Guy shows up today, professional young guy. He has to address all lines I replaced, understandable, but actually makes more leaks. So, he suggests PEX piping and brass fittings. I have been intending to redo everything in PEX, so I'm OK with that, even though I know it'll be more 'spensive for him to do it than for me to. I fully understand that he has to be certain that there are no leaks, air or water, above the well to make sure that the problem isn't something silly (that I've done). BUT.. $330 later, we have nice new PEX lines w/brass fittings, and at the end of the day, still no pressure to speak of, so he turned down the pressure to 30/44 psi. (something I could have done on Wed.) Our system ran at, and I want it returned to 40/60 psi as I cannot stand a weak shower. I was firmly convinced (after installing the new tank), and it is now completely verified, that the problem with the pump not making enough pressure lies inside the well, not above ground. He left an estimate (I had to go to work) of $500 +/- to pull the lines and address the jet in the well, but ultimately he/they'd rather install a submerged pump. It's an easier fix for the problem, but would cost me more money, and I will have wasted the money spent on the new pump. Aside from spending $330 to verify my suspicions, and have him reduce my pressure settings, I don't see where we received any value today. I'm a bit peeved. Now.. I have several options available... 1.. Pull lines and dicker around with submerged jet assembly that I currently know little about. 2.. Pay them to do #1 3.. Pull system entirely and drop down a submerged pump that I actually have available now. 4.. Pay them to do #3 5.. Fire up the Kubota and dig a trench 3' deep from house to trailer well, purchase mucho line and plumb house into the secondary well. (wanted to address this next year) 6.. Blow up house and start all over. (OK, not really an option, but ) As of right now, I've not tested the pressure settings via shower, but we do have a working system, AND I don't have to worry about the garden hose laying across the yard freezing. Any thoughts or suggestions?? This thread will likely be continued in 2019 when I do plan to trench to the other well and have the option of 2 wells to this household, so there's that.
I have had both jet and submersible and as I am sure you are well aware submersible is superior as it is much better to pump/push the water than suck/siphon the water. With that said in the instance where you are at if you are not happy with the pressure you now have I would pull the lines out of the well. Not really that hard. If you can shine a light down the casing you should see a pitless adapter where the line come into the casing on the side. This should be threaded on top so you can screw a length of pipe down into it to pull it upward (I made a tee handle with pipes). Once connected to the pitless adapter pull upward and you will be pulling 2 lines together since it is a jet system. Pull it and lay it out across the yard as you pull (easier with 2 people) At the bottom you will have a foot valve that keeps the water from all draining back into the well when pump is not running. Have a look at stuff from there. That would be my first attack plan.
Sorry Chaz. Your not the only one, many sagas here with members having problems with things from plumbing, wells, septics, electrical, roofing, you name it. Me included. Hang in there Just too cool and generous others here offer advice on what worked for them. Ya, we found a very cool site.
I have a jet pump (1/2HP I think) with a 100 gallon tank and I don't think I've ever tried for over 35 psi with it.
I'll bet the foot valve has a hole corroded in it. There is really nothing else to go bad down there. The third time my foot valve went bad (i have really hard water) my BIL (worked for a well driller) insisted they put a submersible pump in. No problems since.
If not a foot valve issue, could be the jet assembly right above the foot valve is partially clogged. 60 lbs may be pushing it with a jet system. I think I always ran a 30/50 cutoff switch.
It’s usually all about horsepower vs depth. More power in the pump more pressure you get. What HP submersible did the well driller suggest? How many feet down?
Hey all, thx for the input and advice. Well, 99% certain it's not the foot valve, as it will build and maintain pressure. No losses in system whatsoever. It is likely the jet assembly, which explains why the system all of a sudden couldn't build to shutoff pressure. Old pump/tank was a Craftsman setup. 1 hp well pump set up at 40/60, matched with Craftsman 35 Gal pressure tank. Couldn't find a Craftsman replacement. (Wonder why. ) Installed a Simer 1 hp 40/60 well pump, and a County line 35 Gal pressure tank from TSC. Aside from manufacturers, it's an identical system. Not sure of well depth, first issues we've had with the system. The tech did not specify any particular size submersible pump. I do have a Gould's 1/2 hp 7 gpm submersible pump available, it was in the other well till around 4 yrs ago. That replacement is yet another story.
Okay, A lot going on with your water. I have had a few places in the country. Up till now I have always had jet pumps (Goulds, they were always good and not far from me here in Upstate NY). In my new place (3 years) I have a Submersible (Goulds, Stainless Steel, $150, at a garage salve, NIB, manufactured in 2005 I believe) and I really like the submersible a lot. I have always set mine at 30/50 and used a 10 gal pressure tank. Black well pipe is pretty cheap, if you run a new line I would sheath it in a larger pipe for back fill protection. Be interesting to see what the final issue is with all of this. I am fortunate here that even though we have great Perk, the water table is only about 8-10 feet down where I built on my farm. If it wasn't so inexpensive for me to put the well in I would have done a rain water harvesting system with cistern in a heart beat. Keep us posted!
Chaz can you start from the beginning of your problems? This was a submersible pump to start? and you installed jet pump to correct what prior issue? If this is a single drop jet system the suction losses are likely the cause
Hey guys, Yeah, unfortunately. Ok, from the top. Purchased property in Aug 2010. There is a house and a trailer on property, they have separate wells, but share septic. House system has always been a convertible jet pump, (2 line), don't know how deep well is (yet). Trailer has submersible system and well is around 150-200' deep, maybe more. It's been a few years since that line was pulled to replace that pump. House had a Craftsman system which was a 1 HP jet pump system, rated for 40/60 pressure, and always would run at 60 psi. Nearly a month ago at ~11:30 PM the pump started after flushing toilet, pump normally filled the tank and shut off after around 6 minutes. Pump continued to run, so I went out to check, and pressure was running around 35-40 psi, and would not shut off. Have had issues with the air pressure bleeding down on the tank, so I empty system and check, it doesn't register. Fill with 38 psi of air, start pump, still won't reach shutoff pressure, but when I manually shut it off, the pressure held (~43psi), so I went to bed. Next morning, wife tells me pump has been running since she flushed at around 4:30 AM. I was surprised it didn't burn out, as it had been running continuously for over 2 hours at that point. Called and talked to boss, we weren't busy, so took the day off. Checked pressure switch, had some rust and crap in there, so I figure maybe it's not reading the pressure. Replace that, no difference. Tear pump apart, impeller assembly spins freely, but didn't tear impeller assembly apart till a couple days later. In the meantime (3 HD trips) I decided to shutoff all water lines in trailer, which is fed by a submersible system. Then I ran a garden hose from the trailer to backfeed the house system and have hot/cold running water. This buys time for more "fun". Replaced pump with another 1 hp 40/60 jet pump, same issue. Replace tank with another 35G pressure tank with air pressure set to 38 psi, same issue. Blow yet another line out while trying to fix a very minor leak, and finally gave in, called well company. Well company comes out, replaces all the lines that I previously replaced, same issue. To address the issue he lowered the settings to 30/44 psi so that the pump will cycle appropriately and not burn up. It would appear that the issue resides with the jet assembly inside the well, it does not appear to be an issue of the foot valve as it does not lose prime or pressure when off. Just won't run at full pressure. Now, I am not mad at the young man from the well service, he was efficient and professional. He also had to ensure that there were no leaks in the system causing the problem. But I did spend $330 for him to replace the lines that I replaced, and turn down the pressure, which is something I am capable of handling. They gave me a "rough" quote of $500 to pull lines and work on jet assembly, or between $1000-2000 to install a submersible Goulds pump. Meanwhile, I do have a used 1/2 hp Goulds pump that is rated at 7 gpm sitting on a shelf that should still be serviceable. However, I don't think it's advisable to install an old pump and have another problem in the near future. In another emergency situation maybe, but it's not really a viable long term solution/fix. So, aside from the extended portion of trips to HD to replace lines and fittings to address leaks, there it is in a nutshell. System works, but pressure is not where it was, or what is preferred. As another bit of information, they poured concrete and built a room around the well which makes it a much harder task to pull the lines for any repairs/work. Also, they did not put any separating material between the concrete and the steel well casing, so that is causing corrosion issues. Sorry for such a long-winded story, I have no knack for brevity it seems.
Just thinking...I have hard water...when I had a Jet Pump, there were times it would do the same thing...it was the foot valve getting limed up and not fully closing...so maybe? ....and, is your pressure tank holding consistent air pressure? or leaking a little? A pin hole leak can be a pain in the a$$ to catch and really screw things up.
Pressure tank is now brand new, so I think that's eliminated. The old tank would lose air pressure over a 4-6 month timeframe. As far as foot valve, I understand what you're saying, but there is zero bleed-down of the system. Even the well guy said if it was the foot valve we'd see pressure loss, quickly or slowly. But, we also have hard water here, so it was one of the things that I considered. If I pull the system to mess with the jet in the well, I might just as well replace the foot valve at the same time I figure, after all, it's something else that I don't wanna be bothered with in another few years.
Hmmmmmm... Ok.. so the foot valve is basically a check valve, correct?? Which means it should not allow water to be expelled, but sucked in only. Ok, so, there may be 2 wrong people here (myself and well-guy), and perhaps the foot valve could be an issue. Hypothetical.. all lines above the valve are good, no air leaks. I would think that would also mean that vacuum pressure would keep bleed-down to minimum, or nothing. So, if that is true, then when the pressure side of the jet system is trying to pressurize the jet assembly, it might allow for water pressure blow-by, which wouldn't necessarily happen simply due to gravity, partially or wholly because of the vacuum of the system above. Either way I'll have to pull the system in order to correct the issue, but might influence cost.
Another frequent cause is a leak in the drive pipe for the jet or rust or scale partially blocking the jet. I'll bet it's something in the jet itself. It CAN be possible to back flush the jet with water and or compressed air. The hole in the jet is not very large and if blocked at all will seriously diminish the ability to push the water up to the point that the pump can draw it in. Pushing water down the main pipe will force water backwards through the jet and up the drive pipe. A submersible is much more efficient, as a 1/2 HP sub will out pump a 1 HP jet.
Your right...don't know how I forgot about that. Good point. ....I still think you should just do rain water harvesting into a cistern (s)...a lot more simple...Like I said before, I would not hesitate to go that route for my next house.
It should be pretty simple to see if the foot valve is leaking or other pin hole down hole. Just break the coupling(s) at the well head or pump and if air sucks in you have a leak. Then pulling the pipe is the only option anyways.
