So, what do you guys think? P43 issues

Yup, Jay, all the techs have them......thing is, you drive 45 mins each way, haven't done anything other than diagnose a possible issue.....the folks don't wanna pay you...time is money, so, the 90 mins in travelling could be better utilized in other ways.......still costs me to go out there.......

 

A Harman stove with issues, it can't be. Seriously though, that sucks. Now I remember why I hate people.

 

I had a ford dealership do recall work and they swore up and down that they did not have to reset the computer in my truck. Little off topic but thought it would fit. Truck did the same thing I called them out on it and they said no our paperwork says no need to reset. I reset it myself and it was fine afterwards. Some people don't want to see the obvious no matter how you present it.

 

heh....nothing to do with hating people! As for a Harman stove with issues.....weeeeell, I think its not the stove but POWER supply issues.....I could be wrong as well, but it makes no sense to swap a bunch of parts (which the owner has already done), and find out you STILL haven't solved it......gimme a good receptacle that tests ok, then we work from there....otherwise, its an utter waste of everyone's time and money.....

 

Perhaps an extension cord to a good outlet in the house would allow for adequate testing. They can't all be reverse polarity and lacking a ground can they?

 

Is this an old house? My house was built in 1930 and most of my receptacles are 2 prong only, no ground. Supposedly the house is grounded. I can't tell you how many adapters I've bought over the years so I could plug in 3 pronged plugs. In my case, I ran a wire from my panel and followed an existing wire to a light switch up from the basement and put in a grounded outlet for the stove.

 

The house should be grounded by the waterline that's why a lot of older houses have a jumper wire across if they put in plastic pipe. Newer houses need driven grounds and really heavily on the system (grid) neutral for a ground.

 

Mine is grounded to my water pipes as you mentioned.

 

Hi LW

Not having a good ground can be a real safety hazard.
Here is a good example of our old Glennwood kitchen stove.
It was an old 3 wire - Two hots and a neutral also used as the ground.
However there was no complete wiring of the neutral to a common bus.
The front mounted control panel had the neutral grounded to this metal panel so to complete the circuit current ran thru the stove body. Nice old design! Saves on alot of ground and neutral wires!
Well as the stove got older the screws that hold the front metal panel to the stove got rusty and did not make as good electrical connection!

So one day my wife was wiping the counter with a sponge in one hand and turned on the stove with the other hand!

Current always flows thru the path of least resistance and went right thru her instead of those rusty old screws! Noone thought about that! Luckily she was ok but I have heard of cases where people loose their eyesight from the current! The nerves in the eyes are like a weak filiment in a light bulb. If you have ever seen an electricution! Lawsuit city!

New stoves we have today never run neutral to the stove body. That is why we have a 4 wire stoves. Another reason is if the neutral breaks connection and touches the stove body, the current still makes a solid run to the electrical box and not thru us! Also protects us from power surges and lightning!

Therefore in a house with no ground if the neutral opens or looses connection, the current will find the least path of resistance to flow and it could be thru you!

Polarity was more important years ago for 2 prong wiring and appliances (No seperate case ground wire). If the polarity is reversed then the case of the appliance can become hot and give you a shock. That is when we had alot of metal cases on hair dryers and other items and not all this plastic stuff!

Just my 2 cents. Hope this helps.

P.S. Some of the older Whitfield Pellet Stoves do not have these grounding design improvements! Although 110 VAC is not as dangerous as 220 ! ! !

 

yup......in my original post, I did mention we tried several outlets.....the longer the extension cord is, the more resistance you get, which isnt ideal either......as I said, tested a few outlets- all the same......

 

pretty much everything I read above reinforces my idea not to do anything more with this unit until I can get a good test on the outlet...in other words, a ground and a neutral neutral, and a hot hot........so, my viewpoint remains the same......fix the outlet, THEN we will see if the stove works right, but until then, I am not even coming out again......

 

He did not pay for the service call prior to the Tech leaving the house?

Eric

 

we generally get the credit card number when the appointment is made, thereby allowing us to explain how much the service charges are, etc. When the work is done, we get their signature on the service form to allay any folks who claim the work wasn't done, or we didn't have any authorization to charge, etc........but what do you do when they refuse to sign? Bill it anyways? Have you ever read the Agreement for credit cards that the retailer has to sign prior to accepting the cards? I would guess that most retailers haven't......because if you did, you'd think twice about accepting the cards.....its totally loaded toward the credit card processor and consumer viewpoint (and maybe rightly so?).......chargebacks can be darn hard to fight, and almost impossible if the consumer still appeals.....

 

Hi LW

I read the links about AC outlet polarity and how it can create a shock hazzard in an ordinary Metal Lamp! Great info!

This Polarity reversal can also be applied to a Pellet Stove with a Metal Body!

Only the design engineer at the Circuit Board design lab at the board manufacturer would know how damaging this can be to a circuit board but here is my take on how it can be a hazard to the CB and pellet stove!

Polarity was more important years ago for two prong household wiring and appliances (No separate case ground wire). If the polarity is reversed then the neutral and the case of the appliance can become hot and give you a shock. This is the exact condition that trips a GFCI breaker! Back then household appliances such as hair dryers had metal cases instead of the plastic ones we see today. Pellet stoves still currently have a metal shell so polarity may still be an issue. If the polarity is incorrect, then the On/Off button which normally turns the power off where the hot line enters the stove, will disconnect the power upon exit. Even though the stove is off, there may be power in the stove that can cause a shock hazzard and give the wrong side of sensitive components on a digital circuit board a high potential. Even a surge protector cannot eliminate this safety hazard to you and hazard to the circuit board or control panel!

 

Sounds like its time to move on from this customer and write off the amount as bad debt. Some customers are not worth the hassle.

Difficult customers are one thing, some are impossible. It happens.

 

LOL! This is exactly what I've done. We didn't sell the unit, its not under warranty.......hate to say it, but I've just got to think of a politically correct way of saying "I am not wasting anymore time, effort, or money dealing with you until you fix the obvious power issue....good day"......or some such........maybe just a simple "Until you correct your outlet issue, there is nothing I can do..." might work.......but that might be too blunt.......

 

Too blunt? I dont think so, I think that it says what needs to be said. I dont think pussyfooting around the issue will work with this customer.

Sometimes you want to be able say what's on your mind and not use the politically correct filter

 

heck, I ALWAYS would like to say what's on my mind, but that's not conducive to good business! One of the reasons I'm not on the other forum anymore.....tho I do admit I have been there anonymously and chuckle when I see some of the issues with obvious answers that go unanswered or incorrectly answered......no offense to you folks who still post there, of course!

 

Hi LW
Tell him you will sell him a circuit board to get his stove working but NO refunds on electrical parts. Heck he may buy 2 or 3 of them before he figures out the real problem! LOL
His electrician can install the CBs and take full responsibility!
A win-win $$ situation LOL

 

One more final important issue here!
Granted a large voltage spike from an intense electrical storm can immediately blow out a circuit board or control panel. However just like small doses of arsenic in humans, small voltage swings can create accumulative damage of time. In other words this dmage can slowly poison the components in the control panel making it act flakey. This condition makes it very hard to diagnose the issue.
No ground and reverse polarity can also make these potentials higher or lower and flucuate more often. Utlity company power engineers know this, but due to so much old and poorly designed wiring out there are probably tight lipped to prevent lawsuits.
Most likely this is the real cause here!