Potential problem with new stove

I recently bought a new EPA stove (manufacturor name left out for a reason). It's a steel stove with secondary combustion tubes. My stove pipe is 6" single wall - total height of single wall pipe and insulated pipe through the roof is about 22'.

I've been burning a wood stove for more than 25 years and I'm not a rookie to burning wood. This stove replaced a Vermont Castings Defiant Encore which was 30 years old. The new stove has air control only, no visible or adjustable damper. Damper adjustment is controlled automatically and internally via the air control adjustment.

I Installed the stove and went through the manufacturors instructions on burn in and paint curing process with what seems to have went without issue. After 7-10 smaller fires, I had a fire that was I would consider normal. Wood was fully seasoned cherry and oak, normal split size and after initial heating, I loaded about 6 pieces of wood in the stove. I closed the air control which, in turn, started secondary combustion. Measured temp on the stove top was 450 degrees. I noticed quit a bit of flame 15 minutes after which I thought was odd. Temp was 700 and rising. Temp finally stopped at 825. Far to hot, I know.

Second fire - all the same except I started the secondary combustion at 350 degrees. Temps soars over 700 again.

Third fire - all the same, except I used only 2-3 pieces of fire wood. Temps hover around 625.

Contact sales person. Has me perform a test on the seal for the door. Test revealed door gasket is tight. After him speaking with his rep and then I suppose the manufacturor, his recommendation was to add a blower unit to the back of the stove to lower stove temps. I reject the thought of putting a $350 band aid on a potential problem. His explanation was that they think my chimney system is producing too good of a draft forcing the stove to over heat. Too good of a draft? He then says that I just won't be able to load the stove with a lot of wood...just what the draft features of my home and system dictate. I'm not happy at this point.

My thought is there is an air leak someone where in the stove and I shouldn't have to spend $350 chasing a solution to the issue. I also don't like the safety issue I'm creating in my home. Sales rep disagreed and basically said I was over reacting. I was highly irritated that a companies first reaction was to have the consumer spend money to fix the issue. I've suspended conversations with him at this point. My issue isnt necessarily with him.

So, I'm bringing this situation here to have some others provide their opinion. Am I really expected to not be able to load my stove with wood, close down the air control for longer burns because my draft is too good?

What say you?

 

Pipe damper to regulate draft?

 

Well, no and the fact that my Insurance company isn't fond on that option (was told to remove one on an older stove in the shop years ago).

 

I was thinking the same thing (chimney damper). After you posted, I can't figure out any logical reason the insurance company should have an issue with a piece of equipment that helps to control the stove. That's whacked.

As to the manufacturer, I have no good advice on that. It would seem that most, if not all, of these newer stoves are very controllable.

I left the pipe damper in when I installed my new Ideal Steel because it was already there, but also I didn't know if I would need it or not. I have not touched the thing since the stove was installed nearly a month ago.

I hope the situation can be resolved to your satisfaction, money being what it is, I know I don't have any extra to spend on another new stove.

Chaz

 

I am going to go ahead and post on this. You haven't given much information but yes, with 22 feet of chimney it appears that you have a strong draft. EPA stoves always have a certain amount of air flowing into the stove even if you have the air inlet shut; by design so that some air flows in for the secondary combustion. We can't see your stove design but if you have an OAK inlet on the stove, you could try reducing the size of it as a way of damping down the air flow since you don't want to install a damper.

Now I am gone.

 

You say the only control mechanism you have is air control.
Question.. I have to assume you have done all you can with that, did it make ANY difference at all?

I'm wondering if the air control mechanism is not working properly and that is the issue.

Chaz

 

Well, then I'll just post a reply. Haven't given much info. What other info would you like to see?

Now I'm gone.....also.

 

Yes, done all that I can. It's all the way down / off / limited, however, you want to look at it

 

Was told that the device limits the ability to clean the stack properly. It was either I took it out, or get dropped from my insurance. Not much of a choice.

 

While I don't know precisely how your stove works, I know my primary air feeds through a diamond shape underneath close to the front, and the secondaries are unregulated air holes underneath to the rear. A few weeks back the plate hooked to the lever on my stove got loose, and was letting too much air in, resulting in a few moments of terror.

Can you have a look and confirm your primary air plate isn't loosey goosey?

What kind of weather do you have?

 

Seems like you don't want to post what the stove is - but that could be key info.

I also think it sounds like you could have too much draft, and a damper could be needed - that's quite a bit of chimney. Without actually measuring the draft though, we don't know for sure. Which might lead to chasing things that don't need chased. Manometers can be got fairly cheap, Dwyer Mark II Model 25 is a decent one. Most all stoves or appliances have chimney draft specs. That part about the insurance company saying no damper sounds weird, never had any insurance company say anything about dampers any time I've had to talk insurance. Maybe you could try again - could be that one person was a little off on their info. The main standard insurance thing, is stove installed per manufacturers instructions, and if those spec draft limits and a damper is needed to meet those then they are in effect telling you to disregard manufacturer instructions if they say no damper - which is what I would stress to them if they still say no damper. Most instructions I've seen actually have a damper in their install/piping diagrams, at least as an option or 'if needed'.

 

I can overfire my insert without a blower.... but it's an insert and is designed differently.

I agree with you not to like the manufacturer's reply. I'd do a smoke test to find potential leaks in other places besides just door gasket.

 

If it makes you feel any better whatsoever, I can get my stove above 600 with just a few splits, and packing the stove will easily get the stove top temp to 800+ until I cut the air off. It's pretty easy to control temp/flame on my stove, and I have practically the minimum length of chimney. I don't shoot for those high 800 degree temps but I'm not too worried when they occur, as long as I'm there to cut the air off. Then it creeps back down to high 600s low 700s. I've never seen any external parts of my stove glow red in the slightest, only the internal side rails...which is when I worry a bit.

 

I'm interested to find what stove this is. I hope you find resolution soon

 

Any ashpan on the mystery stove? Was the test a punk/incense all around the unit?

 

I don't blame OP though, $350 is ridiculous for a fan. The fan I'd need for my stove is $300 and I thought that was outrageous.

 

That could have been for a kit which might have included more than just a fan. Some stove blower kits can be like that - but not knowing the stove, hard to say.

 

I can understand the frustration.

What you describe is EXACTLY what I went through with our cabin stove when we upgraded to a modern EPA tube-style from the old smoke dragon, including break-in fires all good, then liftoff the first time we loaded it up for an overnight burn. On that first full load, we cut down the air when the flue gas temps started climbing per usual as with other stoves we've used, but the secondaries slowly went into blast furnace mode. Tried it all, air on more, off all the way, it simply would not choke down.

Things that typically help to avoid this which you may already know: don't load too much small fresh wood when the stove is still hot/burning, like 400+. You can get too much surface off-gassing feeding the secondaries. Also the larger and fewer the splits the slower the burn, for the same reason.

Trying the above usual stuff, our stove would still take off. Even smaller fires would burn hot and very quickly. Especially around the dog house air...

What I found when trying to solve the issue was that the stove's secondary air was not regulated. This is common, and my solution didn't require me to change that. The primary air, while turned all the way "off", was still letting in about a 3/4" diameter tube of air directly to the dog house. I believe this was our problem, coupled with the strong draft of the chimney system. Simply too much air. What I did was stuff some steel wool in there to reduce the airflow and voila! Worked like a charm. Stove is a completely different, controllable, animal now. And we enjoy much longer and more even burns.

Look for something like that on your stove. If you let us know what stove it is we may be able to help you find it...

Like others have said, a damper is a perfectly acceptable solution, in fact the fellow who certified our install said he would put one in if we wanted or needed it. And still certify it of course. Manufacturers definitely post draft requirements and flue dampers can help achieve them.

I still wonder if the damper would have been the "proper" way to address our issues, but steel wool was a heckuva lot easier!

Good luck.