Yet another newbie Woodstock Ideal Steel thread

Hi,
New to the group and read BrianK's thread with the 20+ hour burn that was linked from the Woodstock's website as well as a few other threads. Seems like a good group and hope I don't get flamed too hard for redundant questions. (Pun intend). Thought it best to start my own thread with my own specific questions.

Background:
Starting our second season with our Ideal Steel stove in north central Wisconsin. Last year we learned a lot... like what a chimmney fire is like and to pay closer attention to our oldest female dog that recognized we had a problem before we did. This was a self-induced stupid mistake that fortunately was exstinguished quickly and did no damage other than the aging of my heart as it was as scary as all get out.

I desire to understand catalytic combustion better. We learned that our stove is not designed for small 'pretty' fires and my wife understands this (it should be noted that she is NOT wrong but she does know better now).

We have a magnetic thermometer about 4" to the side of our top venting stove pipe, my understanding is that this reads approximately half of the internal combustion temperature. 6" stainless liner running through existing chimmney with minimal air space between chimmney clay tile and pipe - stove and pipe was installed by a professional.

Current general practice, start a small fire about 1/4 full box to establish coals then fill 1/2 to 3/4 and engage cat whilst closing damper to 1/4 open once thermometer reads above 350F.

So questions:

1. Cat combustion should occur at 350F and above. Cat gasses are clean and should greatly reduce creosote build up?
2. Cat can/ is functioning even without noticeable flames (secondaries or other) as long as temperature is above 350F?
3. If temperatures are below 350F is this harmful to the cat system and does it create creosote build up in chimmney?
4. If stove burns over night and coals are still hot but stove is below 350F should the cat be bypassed and damper opened fully to reduce coals to ash?
5. Does the cat/ stove really work at a slow burn with damper closed fully?

That is all for now, look forward to answering any questions that my questions have raised and also for answers from the real world users of this fine stove.

Thanks!

 

Welcome stumplifter to the FHC.

Cat combustion should happen at 500 degrees internal temperture.. your magnet will read about half on single wall pipe. I was told 16 inches above stove top.

2 yes cat is functioning at these Temps easiest way to tell is put a condor 321 in hole above door.. I recommend as not sure why you had a fire

3 by that time end of burn no creosote smoke going up chimney
4 sure or just rake ash into ash grate and load wood!
5 yes

calling BDF Flamestead Sconnie Burner and other to chime in

 

That cat thermometer you are looking for is a Condar 3-12-1

The probe goes where the screw is over the door. Read the last page or two of the long thread to see tips on getting it out without haveing to drill like I did.

With that cat probe you can clearly see it getting hotter while the firebox is dark.

 

stumplifter welcome and ask away, we are friendly and fun.

 

Thanks for correcting my typo Matt Fine ! I appreciate it, hate to give new guy bad info!

 

No problem. I just ordered and installed mine so it was still on the brain.

 

Thanks guys... so the Condar 3-12-1 reads the cat temperature and thus is a more efficient means of monitoring the stoves performance?

I already really like the knowledge base here, practical advice from real users is exactly what I desire.

Splits vs rounds?
Discuss.

 

Where did you get yours, Matt?

 

Doesn't matter... as long as it's dried to 20% moisture content or less
and less is better

 

The cat thermometer sticks a probe in the air flow over the open damper, or when closed, over the edge of the cat. It tells you what you need to know for cat operation and it is clearly color coded to make it easy.

A couple things. First, getting the screw out may be a challenge. See the other thread for tips. Second, the hole is a bit too big, you can leave it loose or grab a magnet with a center hole to stick it on. Finally, the lip of the lid gets in the way. Lift slightly to insert the probe, and then turn the dial upside down. That will let you see the important range from a distance.

 

On Amazon from a seller called Chimney Supply Co.

 

Thanks for the replies and warm welcome!

With the Ideal Steel and its higher efficiency is there a preference/ benefit to adding larger diameter pieces vs. smaller splits to an established coal bed? What size (diameter/ square dimension) would be considered too large?

 

My opinion, I like smaller splits because I can fit more of them in. Yes the IS is efficient but in cold weather more wood equals more heat!

 

Imo, size doesn't matter. Just adjust to air to suit.


I also don't believe the species matters either. I have been burning 99% cherry so far this year with great results and I have trouble burning the coals down with oak.

 

In my experience, smaller splits can give more heat fast. If you are trying to go low and long that will give you a temp spike before it settles in. With larger splits, I am able to get a smoother heat curve when turned down.

As far as how big is too big? If it fits in, it will burn.

 

As TurboDiesel says the stove behaves so well and adjustable really doesn't matter. I load 2 or 3 rows (depending on depth of coals) front to back.

 

That's ^^^ not what she said...

Love this group already, high activity level, quick replies and apparently high knowledge level.

 

Hello and welcome to the forum. Great group of folks here, and it is a very pleasant place to discuss wood stoves and all the accessories w/out any abuse, and GOO ROOS talking down to you and so forth. Really, a nice little spot on the 'Net to stop in and chat about all things wood. Add to that that quite a few of us here have Woodstock Soapstone products, and more than a few Ideal Steel stoves. Some of us have been studying and experimenting with these stoves for a few years now and might be able to give a new user some information- it is up to you to decide if that is useful info. or not.

I have had my I.S. since 2014, I have a four probe thermocouple reader / recorder on it, and have given it a bit of study and made some changes. Cat. based stoves do have a learning curve and I always suggest to everyone that if possible, they get some type K thermocouples stuck in the stove, in the flue and above the cat. at the very least, to really observe how these stoves work. Of course that is not needed, but I have found it useful to monitor the function of the stove.

To try and answer your questions:
1) Usually the number quote to keep a cat. "lit" is 500F or 600F incoming temp. That means the top of the firebox internal temps. should be kept. to this as a minimum. A new cat. will work at 350F but not for long; as catalytic combustors age, they become less and less responsive and 350F will only work on a very 'fresh' cat., usually having less than a couple hundred hours on it.

2)Yes, the cat. will function perfectly with a 'black' firebox (no flames, black glass). In fact, the cat' feeds off of this very thing, and actually uses the smoke that would normally go up the chimney as fuel; this 'low and slow' range is where a cat. stove shines.

3) I would not run temps. in the firebox down to 350F and would consider that too low. Now I am speaking of internal firebox temps. here using a probe, not outside or surface temps. Surface temps. will easily be less than half of internal temps. but without actually monitoring those internal temps, it is tough to know when a cat. stalls and is no longer 'lit' and working.

4) That depends hugely on your draft. My original chimney was masonry, about 22 feet tall and lined with an 8 X 8 flue and just did not draft that well. My new chimney is much taller, and is a 6 inch stainless steel chimney that drafts much, much better. Originally, I had to open the bypass and even add a little 'under the grate' air to burn down the coals. With the new chimney, I can very effectively burn down the coals with the bypass closed, just a tad of under- grate air and opening the main draft 3/4 of the way or more.

5) Not sure what you mean by damper here. If it is the draft control on the stove, again, that depends greatly on the draft of your own chimney. But generally, no, the I.S. does not burn completely with a closed draft. You will have to experiment with your own stove, on your chimney, with your firewood to know but a good place to start is 1/4 draft (the first big notch on the draft control) with the bypass closed and the stove loaded. It may run hotter than you need this way but it should NOT overheat, at least safety- wise. As you get to know your stove and your heating needs, I would suggest moving the draft control only one or two small notches at a time to get a feel for how the stove reacts and burns overnight.

I have posted some long- burn temp. graphs in the Ideal Steel thread, as has Hollywood (he is using the same reader / recorder I am). You may find it useful to take a look.

Brian

 

BDF,
With respect and reverence I feel you have a bit of a retentive issue!

I fully appreciate the fact that you are gathering so much temperature data, because if you don't measure it you really can't control it. And statistical data collection is a nerdy pastime of mine, but more importantly it often times will reveal the truth! I intend to get the Condar 3-12-1 referenced earlier for monitoring cat combustion temps.

Yes I meant draft control.

So glad you mentioned the 'under the grate' air.
Generally when starting a fresh fire I empty the ash box, put the empty ash box back in position and put a bit of paper, kindling, small splits with big splits on the sides. I light the paper, close the door and with the draft control and cat both opened I will then open the ash box clean out door to allow air to come up 'under the grate' to get a robust flame going with the intent of pushing hot air up the chimmney to get a good draft established right away.... is this a good practice or can it lead to bad things?

 

In my experince the condar 3-12-1 is a step in the right direction. Though these spring coil type thermos arent 100% accurate they will indicate what is happening. I find mine more of an indicator as to when to engage the bypass and make sure the temp stays steady or goes up avoiding stalling the cat on a fresh load. I am seriously looking into the 4 channel logger a couple guys are using. Not so much for the logging but to be able to see the instant readings vs the delayed coil thermo readings after an air adjustment is made.

Be careful with the ash pan door usage for relights. Always be willing to give 100% undivided attention when going this route because the fire can go nuclear in an instant.

My opinion is these stoves are very easy to run without much thought involved just the way they come to your door. But they can also be over thought(not in a bad way), with the gadgets and mods guys are doing to them to squeak every ounce of heat and efficiency out of them. I've been running mine February-mid April last year and mid October till now pretty much on a 24/7 schedule. And still tinkering with settings to find that optimal heat output per conditions.