Another Woodstock Beta tester - Ideal Steel

So like Dave asked, can you burn it at 600 for an hour and then turn it down?

 

Nice.

We were typing at the same time..

 

Yes, we do that routinely.

 

Thanks for asking the question that way Jeff.
If the stove can be controlled that well,....... that's what I've been looking for.
Had a fire last night, and the stove behaved as usual. The outside temp was mid-20's, and the house got very warm for a few hours because I can't keep the stove in the temp range I need.
It just wants to run up to 700 or more for a bit, then start it's descent.
If I can run a stove to warm the house up, then cut the air to get a long controlled burn at a lower temp to maintain......ding, ding,ding.
We got a winner.
Brian, good answers, too.

 

The IS just may be the stove to do that. Of course I can't back it up just yet but I'm sure the Beta testers could.

 

Lifter - great to see another IR owner. Great stove. A great looking workhorse. So, for obvious reasons, I can probably explain my experience best to you. So the IR doesn't take long to get to temp, and you need to keep an eye on it because if the wood is nice and dry, that puppy will heat up fast. Not sure if you have the same experience (it seems others on other forums do) but it seems to love to run up around 700 with the termo on the bottom left of the griddle. And it is then in cruise mode. Stays there for a while as it slowly lowers over 8ish (+ or - depending on your air setting) hours. With this "spike" early on in the cycle, the house heats up quickly and everything is good.

So then I get the IS (my only other stove, well I had an early 80s VC but that doesn't count in my book) and at first, I wasn't actually all that impressed with the IS. The stove would get up and running, I would engage the cat (similar to us shutting the starter air) and things were off and running. I would cut the air back pretty quickly (as I had to with my IR or things get real hot). But the stove temp would only be around 350-400 maybe 5, but the house wouldn't heat up that quickly. The stove would stay at these temps for a really long time, but it just didn't seem to put out the heat I was used to.

Long story short, I had two things I needed to get used to. The stone and the Cat. So because of stone, the stove takes a little longer to get up to "cruising" temp. I need to let it go a little longer with the cat disengaged and then after the cat is engaged, leave the air on pretty high to let everything get good and hot. There is a lot of mass to get up to temp. Then the stove is nice and hot. I will push it up to 650 even 700 (high for this stove compared to the IR), at which point everything is nice and hot. This is when you just basically set your temp. Like this morning, I got the stove nice and hot and put the air at around 25%, so I would expect the temp to drop, as usual, to about 500 and stay there. Yesterday, it was warmer out, so I set it around 15% (well I just posted that last night....anyway). I am sure you get the point.

So while it holds the heat longer (quite a bit longer), it also takes more time to get warmed up. Makes sense to me now. Also, following the steps above, I can warm the house up pretty quickly. Maybe not as quick as the IR but pretty close and then the house is nice and toasty (well for me that is 70-75) and will stay at a more consistent temp as the stove is at a more consistent temp.

So all this being said, I think the largest difference will be the air control, and with that, being able to use full loads in the shoulder seasons and dial it way back without sweating everyone out of the house.

FYI, it throws a TON of heat out the front of this thing. You don't need to stand too close to warm up (if you have flames in the firebox obviously).

Don't get me wrong, it's not a miracle stove that we all want, load it once at the beginning of the season and never worry about it again until spring , but it is well done and I am enjoying more and more as I get used to it.

Now for anyone else reading this, I am coming from a non cat, cast iron. So some of things I am impressed by, maybe others see already with other cat stoves, I don't know.

 

Papa- Your experience with your current stove sounds very similar to what I just described with with my IR. Now mind you, I have more square footage to heat, so that extreme isn't as pronounced and not as much of a problem. But really the only option you have to control that is to build more, smaller fires to control that situation. The IS gets rid of that problem. Now that is for me, with my square footage with my draft, etc. Is it the right stove for you, I don't know, but I can tell you, I can turn this stove down far enough that it does not put out enough heat to heat my house (but it will go for 24 hrs). So that is what made me think the other night (before I chimed in here) that it would work well in a smaller house and actually be really awesome. So instead of me loading it twice a day on 30+ days and 3 times a day on cold days (that third time is not a full load), in a smaller house, you could load it once on warmer days and twice on colder days and could keep the house at a pretty consistent temp.

 

Yes, I believe it offers that type of control. Now I obviously don't own a BK, in fact I have never seen one. They appear to be awesome stoves. Personally I really like the look of the ashford 30. Anyway, I have NO idea how they compare performance wise. I can only tell you that from what I have read about the BK, the IS acts similar (to me, coming from a cast iron - non cat - non stone). Don't ask me what I think is better or more efficient, or burn longer. I have no idea.

For those in a smaller house considering this stove, it is big, so make sure it fits your house physically. It is quite a bit bigger than my IR. That would probably be my first concern (before over sizing heat wise).

 

Oh, and going from hot flames to black out. I don't know. I always need more heat for my house. I have turned it way down so that there are a small amount of flames and then, maybe in 30-60 minutes no flames, but I haven't just slammed it shut from 100%. And as a side, the glass doesn't get black when I do that.

 

That's pretty much how my stove works. I spent an hour or so burning the coals down from last night's load. I filled it with some ugly, twisty splits, got it up to about 550 and got the house to around 74, and turned it down. It is running around 450 right now, but that's right on top of the cat, and the firebox is dark, so it isn't putting out a lot of heat. It is now 40 outside with the clouds going away, so I'll turn the blowers off and maintain the rest of the day.

This sounds different from other hybrids. It seems like the rest use the cat to clean up what is missed. From what I've read, you have to catch it right to get a mostly cat burn. Being able to regulate the IS sets it apart.

Thanks to you guys for your 'work'. It seems that Woodstock used the early production PH owners as beta testers. It's good that they have some out in the real world, before production starts, this time. Plus, you guys get to tease us.

The BK King is massive. But mine is in a big room. My living room/dining room/kitchen is basically one big, open space of 1000 sq ft or so, so it works. Most other stoves I've seen seem small to me. I chuckled the first time I loaded the Spectrum

I don't care which is better or more efficient or burns longer. I want the control you guys are describing. Forty hour burns are a novelty that wears off. I load my stove for 12 and 24 hour cycles, because it is easiest that way. Load it at night, or morning and night.

 

Alright, I need to get back to work, but before you guys start to think I work for WS, maybe I should mention my dislikes? Am I allowed to do that?

By the way, I have never had any contact with WS before this beta. I had stumbled upon them when I was shopping for my last stove, and they are local which is awesome, but they made only soapstone stoves and we just don't like the style. So this fall I stumbled upon an article on the competition they were doing in DC, and thought what they were doing was pretty great (both technology and customization), and just randomly sent Lorin an email offering up my house to try it out.....couple of months later she emailed me and ....here we are. anyway...

dislikes -
I will start with my wife's:
-Wife doesn't care for the styling. Which I get, it is different, but I personally like industrial styling. Seems like a love it or hate it thing.
-She finds the Cat engagement "mechanical". She is used to just two air controls. So when you engage this handle you are moving heavy steel plates. My personally opinion is it is pretty easy/smooth considering what you are moving and I have no issue with it what so ever. I did mention this to Lorin and she said that is one of the things they are working on. Again, never bothered me. Oh wait, that is a lie, it did get all messed up within the first couple of days, but that was not a design issue. Turned out, when it got moved for the install, it actually got out of place and once I put it in it's correct place, it has worked perfectly.

My dislikes:
-Andirons - This is really the only thing I don't like. I like to have andirons, so I don't want to take them out (great that is an option and really easy to do), but the way they work, they dump ash out onto the lip every time I put them down. My wife just stopped putting them down to load, but then you have some really hot metal near your arm while loading. At first I thought it was a great design, quick flip and out of the way, but in practice, not a fan. It is the one thing I hope they change. Also, if they are down and you are cramming the stove full or pulling coals to the front, coals or wood can get in the way of putting them back up which you may not notice at first. So then you have a full stove while you fight with whatever is blocking the andirons before you can close the door. Not going to lie, some cursing occurred.

-my only other thing, is a complete want. The door swings wide, but I am used to my IR where the doors swing all the way (past 180) open. I would like this door to swing a little more to get to 180. Again, VERY minor wish.

That's all I got.

Not sure what else I can tell you guys.

 

The bold is what I tend to do during the day, and the stove will still run up to 650-700 with just 3 splits.
The only time I load it full is overnight, and when we'll be gone for the day.
I won't go over the history I've had with this stove, but it's much more controllable and has been since being repaired and tweaked back in '10.
Yet, still not controllable enough.
I make it work, but it's work.

 

I asked Woodstock that same question Jeff and they're answer was well know more once shoulder season kicks on. Sounds promising from what the beta testers are saying. What I like about this stove is it has the high end I need (my Princess doesn't) but unlike other stoves that have the high end I need you can then turn it down once you have heated the house, also being used to a BK I wanted something that could burn low and long for milder days (like today), it's 38 here and I can get by all day with just one load and the house is a perfect temp. Sounds like I can get both my wishes with the IS, we'll find out next year when I actually install one but I'm excited for next burning season already. I love my BK and would keep it if it could fit in my other fireplace but it doesn't so Ill probably sell it.

 

As a PH owner, just want to say it is incredibly easy to dial the PH down, or speed it up, at any point in the burn by just altering the amount of air. The result (at least on my stove) is pretty instantaneous. So, I cannot imagine the IS to be any harder to dial up or down. Sometimes the stove wants to stay in a secondary burn, rather than cat, but it is a slow secondary burn with ethereal flames dancing around, if the air is cut way back.

It is 30 out today, I have one moderate split in the PH, the air is open about half an inch, and I have a slow cat burn with the stovetop temp just over 300. The first floor is 68, which is where I want it because I am in and out all day today, cutting wood, walking, shoveling etc. Don't want the home too hot today.

I'll put another split in the stove when the present one burns down to coals. Then will put about 1/3 load in tonight for an overnight slow burn.

 

You, somehow, are able to heat a big house in Ontario with the body heat from a small dog, it seems . Your experience with the PH seems somewhat unique, compared to others.

My wife doesn't want to put anywhere near the effort into burning wood that I do. She wants to put wood in the stove, get it hot, then set it where she is comfortable. It is easy for her with the BK, and the IS sounds the same way. I'd get another BK in a heartbeat, but the price of the IS makes it a very attractive (punny, I got nothing to say in the looks department) alternative.

I think I would make a deposit today, if I knew where I would be next winter. Sounds like I have until May to get pre-production pricing, so I just might. I have a house to sell first.

 

Am I reading this right that you guys are running it without any flame before the coaling stage? I've been trying to get those slow flames but find they want to go out entirely, then turning it back up. I haven't quite been able to get them where I want but maybe I don't actually need to see flames.

 

Unhdsm - my understanding (I am new to cat stoves) is that as long as the cat is "on" and got hot enough at the start, you do not need flames in the firebox to burn clean (seems to be true from when I remember to check outside for smoke). The cat is "lit" and will generate enough heat to stay lit by burning the smoke from the firebox.

Having said that, when it is in that state, most of the heat is coming from the cat, so your heat output is way down. This is why I haven't used it this way too much, as I need more heat, but I plan to do this more as it warms up outside.

Remember, everything should be nice and hot before you put the air/temp down to this level.

 

Is this inside info., or speculation?