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Performance test: E10 vs Ethanol Free vs Trufuel

Discussion in 'Chainsaws and Power Equipment' started by 94BULLITT, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. MasterMech

    MasterMech The Mechanical Moderator

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    If it’s tuning for max rpm under load at WOT, then it’s tuning for max power. ;) If it did not have the ability to deviate from a pre-defined map, then my two m-tronic Stihl’s would not run worth a crap. Both of them have the compression ratios and airflow modified from stock, and not just a little bit. It’s not just my saws either. There are a ton of ported 201Ts, 241s, 261s, 362s, 441s and 661s out there laying waste to the forest everyday. M-tronic and AutoTune both accept engine mods without user intervention. Try that on your ‘86 Mustang GT. :rofl: :lol:
     
  2. Fabz

    Fabz Banned

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    I respectfully disagree with that last statement sir ... ethanol contains LESS energy than gasoline ... yes u can run methanol to get more power but u are also using significantly MORE fuel
     
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  3. Boomstick

    Boomstick Banned

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    I don't think you understand what I'm saying......
    Or didn't read or comprehend what I said.:doh:
     
  4. MasterMech

    MasterMech The Mechanical Moderator

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    Just because there aren’t enough sensors means that it can’t possibly be compensating for the things Stihl says it does? What am I missing here? You don’t need an oxygen sensor or knock sensor to tune an engine. Especially one that does all of its useful work at wide open throttle.

    If you were to tune a leaf blower, you’d hold it wide open and adjust for best rpms. (Preferably with a tachometer in hand) Wouldn’t matter if you had E0 or E10 fuel in it, if you were at 500 or 5000ft, or if it was 0 or 100 outside. That is all an m-tronic system is doing..... twisting the screw.
     
  5. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Ethanol makes more power, but gets worse mpg or higher fuel consumption.
    The ethanol also cools the engine better because oxygen is a byproduct of combustion of alcohol. There's pros and cons.

    Here's some good reading for anyone interested in the reality of ethanol/ methanol vs gasoline.Alcohol Fuel Basics - Circle Track Magazine
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  6. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Amazingly the speed density systems on 86-88 ( 88 California models had mass air) 5.0 mustangs were a lot more forgiving than some thought. My 87 LX 5.0 had a bunch of parts that shouldn't have worked, but the street results spoke for themselves. Now, if you start deviating from the stock flow injectors, then you won't get good results. Modded speed density systems actually made more power than comparable mass air systems. The mass air was far more forgiving and willing to change to work better under all conditions though.
     
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  7. Fabz

    Fabz Banned

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    1 gal btu 114,00 gas ; 1 gal btu 81,800 e85 ... as a "test" try running your saw on e85 and let us know how much more "power" it makes !
     
  8. Horkn

    Horkn

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    You are not arguing my point.
    Read the link I posted. Then you'll see why. Also boomstick mentioned the same effect. The oxygen made as a result of combustion cools the engine. You can make more power on ethanol than gas. It will however use more fuel, and the system needs to be able to handle that. You're not too far off, just a little misinformed. Here's some more info. GM Inside News Forum. Basically more proof that the same engine in e85 makes more power than regular gas. This is but one of several tests proving this.

    Our saws, well any semi modern one at least, is designed to run on e10. No more than 10% ethanol. E85 is outside of that operating window.
     
  9. 94BULLITT

    94BULLITT

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    I don't think that phase separation is an issue any more. In the early days it was.
     
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  10. 94BULLITT

    94BULLITT

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    Yeah, with gas lambda is 14.7:1 and E10 is 14.13:1

    E85 is a popular choice with boosted hot roads because of its cooling properties and its higher "octane."

    I have not read through all the new post yet and I saw MM posted some but it is my understanding that Mtronic is constantly adding and removing fuel to see if RPMs increase. I think it does it hundreds or thousands of times a second. It think it has dual magnets on the flywheel so it knows crank position, at least every 180* of rotation.

    I have an extra muffler for my 261 and I have a O2 bung. If anyone has a wideband O2 and gauge they want to send me to test and see what the AFR is I will then I'll send it back.
     
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  11. 94BULLITT

    94BULLITT

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    Ford is going back to speed density.
     
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  12. 94BULLITT

    94BULLITT

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    I have a 024S with an hyway 260 topend, a 026, and 026 pro. I never cared for any of them. They were all pretty weak. A couple of weeks ago a guy showed me his practically brand new 026 pro. I cut with it and it did pretty good. Then I grabbed a MS261 that is bone stock and I was going to show him how much hotter it was. Well, it did not seem to cut any better. Then I got another 026 that was not running. I got it running and it seems pretty good too. My 024 super was a real turd and I got to looking into the carb and found out it had the worst carb on it. It was the smallest carb they put on these saws. I got a Walbro WT194 for it and it runs better. My 024S also has the worst muffler combo. Where I am going with all of this is, there are over 5 different carbs they put on these saw, 2 or 3 front covers for the muffler, and 2 rear portions of the muffler and who knows what other minor differences. Check your saw out and see if it has a Walbro WT194 carb. That is the most desirable but there are other good ones. I put a china 194 carb on the 026 I just got and runs good. One big thing that kills these saws is the air filter. Make sure it is clean. If you want more power you can get a nylon mesh air filter on ebay for under $10. The trade off is it does not filter as well. Another easy thing to do for more power is an ignition timing advance.

    STIHL Chainsaw 024,026,MS240,MS260 Air Filter | eBay
     
  13. 94BULLITT

    94BULLITT

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    I remember reading a tutorial on how to tune (not laptop, just tools under the hood) the speed density on those cars. The guy that wrote it was running high 11's it the 1/4 with speed density. Now the crazy thing is For is going back to speed density. I think it may have to do with everything being ecoboost and boosted.
     
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  14. Horkn

    Horkn

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    They are already there. It appears ecoboost engines are already speed density.
     
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  15. 94BULLITT

    94BULLITT

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    I heard that everything was going to be speed density. The 5.0 still has a mass air flow sensor.
     
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  16. Fabz

    Fabz Banned

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    The saws are "designed" to run on 10% ethanol - you are not wrong there - however it is my experience that 87 non-ethanol mixed 45-1 gives the most power and longest service life ...
     
  17. Horkn

    Horkn

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    I hope you read the links I posted.
     
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  18. Fabz

    Fabz Banned

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    Yes I did ... we are talking chainsaws here ! Lol
     
  19. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo

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    I have read a lot about how terrible the ethanol fuel is......phase separation, less power, more power, gums up carbs, cleans up carbs, runs hotter( been told I'll burn up an air cooled engine like a chainsaw),poor fuel economy, etc, etc. We have been using the ethanol on the farm for everything that uses gasoline for more years than I can remember, in smaller tractors, lawn mowers, motorcycles (off road and road bikes) Atv's, all of the trucks,cars and vans we have owned over the years and in chainsaws. The only issue we have seen is that we no longer deal with gas line freeze up, so that is a benefit. I've been told that we are just lucky to not have had any problems or issues. I tend to think the stuff isn't as terrible as some make it out to be.
    Dad burns wood in an add on furnace, Grandpa and brother have boilers and I have free standing wood stove so we run a fair amount of ethanol fuel through the chainsaws with no problems thus far. My 2 cents.
     
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  20. MasterMech

    MasterMech The Mechanical Moderator

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    My '87 GT was converted to mass air. As a modified daily driver, it was probably better off that way. Bottom end was TIRED though when I finally sold it.
     
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