Chasing a smoke leak on an Ideal Steel

So late last year, we were getting a bit of woodsmoke in the house when running the stove. The chimney was clear and drawing well, so I changed the door gaskets. As the leakage was not all the time but only now and then, it seemed to do the trick. Fast- forward to this fall, and everytime I start a fire, the house stinks of woodsmoke. So I ordered a new rope seal for the top plate, along with new door ropes, and the top plate rope came in this week.

Today I pulled off the top plate and I think I found the problem right away. Actually, two problems; the rope seal was brown in places and very flattened out, clearly leaking for a while. Of course this is my fault as the rope seal is a maiintainance item and I had not checked it soon enough.

But the second problem was that the sub- plate (not sure what Woodstock calls it, it is the 'deflector' plate screwed and bolted to the top plate (not sure that is the right term either?). It is the smaller plate that you see when removing the center circular disc on top of the top plate of the stove. Mine had warped pretty badly but it warped 'up', or into the hole in the plate above so I did not think much of it. But in looking at it, I found that while the center warped 'up', the edges on both sides of the center warped 'down' and left a pretty big space right over the gasket. Looks like this:



With the plate lifted, it is quite evident:



So I flipped that plate over and it seems to be bearing pretty well on the gasket. Of course I did not have a new gasket to put in that place so I had to re- use the original. I will buy a new gasket and better attend this in the next week or so. Also, the bolts are barely long enough to work on this sub- plate when everything is straight so they are too short with a little warping. Also, they four in the center screw from the bottom up, into the top plate; this does seem to work but I think it is kinda' weak so I may countersink and clear- drill the top plate for flat head screws and then use flat head screws along with nuts to attach the sub plate.

So it might be worth checking this area of an Ideal Steel stove after it has been used for a few seasons. It is very easy and fast to address and quite inexpensive to buy new ropes / gaskets and replace all of them. I will check back and let you folks know if this cured my problem but I certainly believe it is the problem after seeing both the flat gasket seal between the plates, and the rope seal on the top of the stove.

Brian

 

Don't have this stove but it's cool to learn about them. How long have you had yours?

 

Yikes. Good catch!

 

3 years.

Brian

 

Good eye Brian. Mine is doing the same thing. I think we got ours around the same time.

I love this stove but there are so many things that can warp on it. The Absolute Steel seems a lot more simplified and refined.

 

I think the design of that has evolved over time. I know the original beta version showed it as an issue.

 

I can't orient those pictures in my head. I tried to compare to my stove but they look much different. I have some warping on mine but it still looks like it is sealing- but again- those pictures look nothing like the top of my IS. Is the top plate different if you don't order the cooktop?

 

Yes, the parts directly above the combustor seem to be the ones taking a beating, and that makes perfect sense as they would be the hottest parts of the stove. The radiators warp and sag under the tremendous temperatures they run at for hours on end, and at least on my stove, the plate above the radiator is taking a little hit also.

The good news is that these parts are either inexpensive or outright free (warrantied from Woodstock), and easy to change. So it is easy to bring these stoves back into tight, efficient burning devices with absolutely no risk of something breaking or a threaded part freezing and breaking off as so many stoves seem to suffer from.

And certainly a significant part of this is my own fault for not even really looking at the stove over two summers. We were getting some smoke in the house last year also but I just did not address it at all so it of course got worse before being fixed. I could have corrected this at that time.

Brian

 

Those photos show the top plate of the stove upside- down. It is simply resting on the top of the stove, not mounted correctly. Also, both photos are of the back of the stove top, not the front; you can seen the front lip toward the rear of the second photo, and it is bent 'up' in the photo while of course it is bent down.

So just ignore the context; what you are looking at is the top / back of the stove top plate, removed from the stove, upside- down. The warped plate is the one under the top plate but fastened to it by the six screws, four into the top plate from the bottom and two flat head screws that also hold the two smaller round plates on the stove top plate.

It is shown here: http://www.woodstove.com/images/editorial_support/Ideal_Steel_Manual/210_Parts.pdf and is called the "Lift top Assembly", PG-17, on page 30 at the link shown. The part that is warped is the Stainless Steel shield, which is not shown as an individual part.

Brian

 

What changes were made to the ideal steel from beta until now that would prevent this?

 

I was afraid someone might ask that. Umm...

 

Are you sure you aren't thinking about the plate in the firebox? I was the badass who broke that one first. That design got fixed, brilliantly. I hadn't heard of anyone warping this plate until now- and I've purposely tried to boil water on it a couple times.

 

I too have had the occasional smoke smell, more so than with my previous stove, it’s been on my mind.... After reading you post I checked, sure enough, that plate is warped on mine, right side. I’ve yet to unbolt the plate to have a look-see. I plan on checking this weekend

 

Bummer, stove parts warping , that's going to hurt sales and confidence in the stoves

 

Possibly, but I think any stove has its "wear parts". They are all exposed to some extreme heat and are going to have parts that need to be maintained and replaced. I'm not going to fret if I need to replace a part here and there. As I know this monster can heat my 3000q sq ft on cruise mode. No hard throttling required. Gotta remeber cats see temps around 1000 degrees and up every load and the shield being refered to is only about 3 inches away from that if my memory serves me correctly.....

 

You may want to look at the lower plate around the middle and see how it is sealing before you unbolt it; it can be a little tricky to get back together if the lower plate is warped because the screws are so short.

The lower plate only seals in the center, not anywhere else so yours may not even be leaking. There is a ring that acts as a spacer, around the hole in the top plate, and the gasket forms right around that, about 1/2" from the hole itself. So as long as the plate is flat in that area, it will not leak any smoke.

I wish I had taken a couple of photos of how it goes together and seals while I had it apart but did not think of it. Doh!

Brian

 

Yes, exactly that- the warping parts are all directly above the combustor and are exposed (Easy Boys!) to extreme temperatures. In fact, this plate that we are talking about is directly above the radiator that also warps and sags from such high temperatures.

I think the stove would benefit a great deal from putting a little more space between the combustor and those parts. Unfortunately, the stove passed EPA emissions tests as it is and it would probably be prohibitively expensive to re- work the stove and have it tested again. Unless the EPA could extend some kind of a waiver but somehow I doubt that is a possibility.

As far as blame goes, I do not really put this on Woodstock as a failure on their part as far as design goes. It takes some time for these things to show up and with the EPA certification in the way, this presents a real problem for everyone I think.

A reasonable fix might be something pretty easy to fabricate but again, I think the EPA certification is in the way of Woodstock modifying the basic stove design without re- certification. Someone else who knows the rules may jump in here and give us correct answer, I am merely 'estaguessing'.

Brian

 

true,, my first radiator part warped called company new improved design showed up couple days later.... no hassles no long questioaires no bill.. all new designs need adjustments.. I went from 12 plus cord in a nc-13 type with 2 hour burn times.. to 4 cord 10 hour burn times and more heat! a lot more heat! that heat warps some things.. IMO not a problem as I get more better heat for less work!

 

I just checked mine after reading your post. It was almost like a dejavu moment, I knew I looked at it earlier....but did I? Looked again and the seal around the center burner is ok. However, like yours, the underside has grown wings where there are no bolts, on the outside corners. I'm sure I'm a few hot burns away from being in the same place as you are now.

Next question. What will you do to repair it?

 

I know we saw movement on the IS top around that plate, but my CRS is kicking in. My pics from that year are on a laptop. I’ll see if I can find something from back then.

On one of the stoves they changed how it was hinged and may have added a bend for strength. I can easily be muddling the IS and AS experiences.