Brakes, rotors, and some questions

Had to pony up for a new set of tires for the wife's minivan. It's a Sienna and they are known to eat tires - 40k miles and the first set of Michelin's were toast, beyond toast.

Tire guy said needs brakes all around and I confirmed. He said he "ALWAYS does front rotors when doing new brakes" and only sometimes just does pads on rears. I've used him as a tire guy for a while now and he is a legit dude, so I don't question his ethics but more of his approach.

The rotors looked fine to me, but I'm not a mechanic. He priced it out for giggles ($625 for all 4)! and I left with the new tires and some questions. He pointed out how the rotors have high spots on the outer edge and claimed a new pad will never mate well due to that outer taper.

I've only ever done rotors when I wear the brakes too low and gouge them or the rotors are just toast.

So what says the FHC crew?

Also, any favorite "bang for the buck" brake mfrs/ models?

 

I generally only change the front rotors when they are grooved or show me a reason to change them.

 

Just be glad you don't have drums all around.
Not a brake guy, but I've done some, and I always change rotors. They aren't too expensive, unless you're a Nascar driver.
Do the fronts now, and the rears in late summer, unless they're toast right now.
I paid that for a full set plus one front caliper a few years ago, new rotors too, so if someone else is doing it, doesn't sound too bad.
Disc brakes are easy, if you have the tools, and shouldn't take long. Did a front set in the driveway, and it took about 1.5 hours, including setup and cleanup.

 

Rotors (well, brakes in general) are 1 thing I won't skimp on. A.C. Delco only for me.

He's also correct on the mating imo. It'll stop if you do not replace rotors, but it'll stop better with new ones.

Remember to clean and loctite your caliper bolts! Also clean the rust off the hub and lightly oil it. That makes for easier removal the next time. If you've ever had to beat one senseless to remove it, you'll appreciate that.

 

The only reason I'll buy rotors is if they are worn thin below allowed specs. If they are rough, grooved or warped (or high/low spots), turning them will smooth/true them up.
To be honest, I don't even turn them for grooves any more. Grooves create more surface area for cooling and stopping (after the new pads wear into the grooves). Over time, sets of new pads should wear the rotor more even/flat. I'm sure this isn't popular logic but it works for me. My $.02

 

How many miles on the rotors? I ask because I got 115000 miles out of my Toyota rotors. First set of new pads at 80000. I just replaced rotors and pads again at 120000. If you aren't driving wildly or towing, you should see substantial mileage from the stock components. If you do replace, I recommend using oem parts. Many Toyota parts are of USA origin.

Can the rotors be turned?

 

When I change the pads, I change the rotor...all 4 each brake job. Maybe unnecessary at times, but since I am in there...

 

I use anti-seize.
Don't let 'em use a gorilla on the lug nuts. Torque those, but sneak up on the final setting. This only takes a few extra seconds, but it keeps the rotors from warping.

 

Zactly.
Lube the slides too.

 

I understand wanting to do it all at once, but I saw 40000 miles of additional service from my rotors when changing first set of pads. That's money I did not have to spend for 3+ years.

 

Hey, if it works, and stops the car..............

 

I changed rotors if grooved or warped. I use antiseize on all calliper bolts so I can work on it with relative ease next time. Calipers either go in and out of dont. If they arent seized, I dont feel they need changed. Just keep them lubed and they will likely keep plugging away. Dont forget to check the brake hose, when those go out they ruin everything else.

 

I have done front pads and nothing more with no problems. Rear are usually far behind front in terms of wear so if it is your first time on the vehicle, concentrate on the front. A new pad will conform to the shape of the rotor so I would just change the pads. As a DIY project, front pads only will come in well under $100 for good quality pads for both sides and will likely take you less than an hour to do. I like to use the EBC pads on my bike but brand is really up to you. I also replaced the front pads on my 2004 Civic and my 2007 Celica with no trouble at all.

 

I can count the number of drums/rotors that I have replaced in my whole life on 1 hand! From what you describe there is exactly ZERO chance I would replace those.
The new pads will ride right in the same groove the old ones did. If the lip on the edge is too bad I will grind it off just to make it easier to get the pads/caliper on and off...if it is the kind that loads the pads into the caliper...if not, screw it, good enough.
The only reason I replace 'em is if they are worn too thin, cracked, or have been overheated and have hard and soft spots from it, or are warped causing pulsating when braking...that will definitely get 'em tossed in the scrap can.
If they are grooved, the pads will wear in to match...if you think about it, that gives you increased friction surface area.
If the rotor is all roughed up from the brakes being worn down to metal, the new pads will have things nice and smooth in no time...will it wear a bit of the pad away doing so, yes. But many lifetime warranty pads are only $25-$30 per set now...I'd rather sacrifice a bit of that then spend a lot more time/money replacing the rotors. If they are too rough I may hit 'em with a flap disc on the grinder to smooth things out a bit.
Now, some vehicles are easier than others to replace the rotors on for sure, (1999 Honda Accord, SUPER easy) and depending on how hard it is to replace them, and the cost, will determine what I will consider "still acceptable" condition...like I said earlier, any cracks or too thin, anything unsafe, then they are gone, no questions asked...but that's not what you describe on your vehicle.
IMO, this one thing that some (many) shops kinda prey on customers with. Its win/win for them. Replacing everything reduces the probability of "comebacks", and increases sales.
Most people have no idea what they are looking at so it is easy for a shop to scare them into spending the big bucks replacing everything. I can make these kind of decisions on my vehicles because I DIY my brakes (and almost all vehicle maintenance repair for that matter) so its easy for me to talk about what I will let go as good enough, if you are having a shop do your work you may have a much more difficult time getting them to agree to just replace the pads. Don't let them scare you into work you don't need, agree to sign a waiver if you have to, then you can go get a second opinion or go home and DIY if you have then ability.
There are TONS of videos on YouTube about how to DIY brakes on almost any vehicle.

 

I've done brakes before so I'm a bit more than a newbie. The rotors only have 40k as well, the van is a 2013.

Wife drives like she drives, she is hard on vehicles and the fight to change her ways isn't worth it. Something something "happy life."

Seems like it is a preference, experience, overkill thing. I am thinking just the fronts and pads on the back.

40k out of tires and brakes is pathetic, but could be how the minivan is, it is a bloated pig of a vehicle.

 

Nah, definitely DIY for brakes.

 

cnice_37 Nobody is telling you that you can't spend big bucks on your brakes. If that makes you happy, go for it. What we are trying to tell you is that your "trusted" brake mechanic is trying to hold you up for more than you should be willing to accept. 40k is ridiculous for pads, much less rotors.

 

Agreed.
What specifically about what I (I'll keep this about what I said) posted would make a brake system not function?
Now way am I putting something back in service that I have any inkling could fail...but the only "failure" I have ever had is a brake line pop while braking...and even then the proportioning valve did its job and I was still able to stop. The OPs mechanic apparently didn't mention replacing brake lines...so is he really that concerned about 100% reliability? Just asking the question...to me unnecessary brake repairs are something many shops pad their bottom line with.
Probably the #1 unsafe thing I see with brakes is rear brakes so far out of adjustment (from a froze up or broken adjuster) that the front brakes are the only ones left working. Or froze up E brake cables...pretty common too.