Thinning 20 acres of pines... with WHAT?

Scenario: 20 acres of loblolly pines planted several years ago. They average 20' - 25' height, maybe 4"-5" DBH. In five to seven years, they'd need their first thinning but 'experts' are telling me that a first thinning won't bring any profit (like it used to) due to depressed pine prices. That it might even cost me money to have it done. So, another option is do it myself. But my main motivation on this tract is not profit, it's returning the 'pine plantation' to a diversified forest. (I didn't plant it in pines, somebody else did.) At age 63, I don't have a long time to git 'r done. Meaning get the forest started back in the desired direction. At this time, let's say that I have settled on thinning the 20 acres to 60 trees/acre from whatever it is now. I don't know exactly what it is but let's say it's 300 trees/acre. That would be cutting down 240 trees/acre. That is a lot of cutting. Also, a few 'clearcuts' would be done, an acre or two here and there to remove all pines so it's open. I will plant hardwoods or just let it regenerate on its own.

I have a Husqvarna 345FR brush cutter / clearing saw that works great for saplings and is fast and you don't have to lean over, but I'd say 3" to 4" diameter at the ground is about the max, and I have what I am told is the best blade for it. So, that would leave using a chainsaw. Or a bulldozer, lol. What chainsaw?

I have a Stihl ms200 rear handle. Great saw, but is there anything lighter? Maybe a Stihl 192? What about an Echo? Any ideas? That will be a lot of cutting, weight matters.

I might be able to cut at waist height except for areas where I will be making a trail for an ATV. Not sure yet, but it would be easier on the back!

Kind of an unusual idea, how would you cut/kill them?

 

Do you have a tractor/skid steer? I think a skid steer with a tree shear on it would be the best scenario. Have you looked at getting any assistance? Look at NRCS for programs in your area: Home | NRCS Louisiana
I have used them for improvements on my property. They offer various cost-share projects where they would pay 50% to 70% of the cost to perform improvements on your property. Talk to an agent. My experience is that they are very helpful. Mine worked with me on a 3 year plan with 4 different projects. The projects were chosen where some of the projects were ones I could do entirely and others were projects where I would have to hire out, but overall it worked out where I would break even (or even come ahead a little bit).
I can give you more detail on my projects and how it works if you'd like.

 

Not sure how things are done down there. In Maine, a planted lot like you describe, could be cut (if relatively level ground), cleared and gone in a few days with mechanized logging. Branches and tops chipped and hauled to a biomass plant. You'd get a stumpage check, if there was any value left. I'm gonna be 63 next month. Cutting 4000-5000 pines, sounds like a lot to me............. ..............and... that's just 50...

 

I would love to hear about your land projects, give me the scoop or PM me, please.

As for a tractor or other big implement, I am in the market for a tractor, but don't have it yet. And even if I had one, I am not aware of a type of implement that could cut pine trees, short of forestry equipment. And that would cost pretty good to hire someone for that. As for hauling it off to a mill, no, as I said in the OP, the costs outweigh the revenue, so I am told, in 2017. And especially since I want to do it NOW, not in 5-7 years when the trees should be at their first thinning height. I am trying to go ahead and clear/thin the trees to get started now, due to my age. I like hardwood/diversified forests, I am not interested in a pine plantation. I understand why people planted them but it's not my motivation. As for forests around here, a bazillion people cut all the hardwood and planted pine and now the market is flooded (and will be for decades, seems to me) and there are very few hardwood patches left. This particular 20 acres and possibly some more I will buy, I will cut/thin the pines and plant hardwoods or let them naturally regenerate.

 

Yep... only way to go with thousands of trees.

 

I have to echo what Backwoods Savage said in his post. For that size a job and the time line you gave, you're talking feller buncher and chipper. Real logging equipment and not just a chainsaw.

Given the size of the trees your best bet is have it chipped for ethanol, biomas, or for pulp wood. You might get a little something out of it or at the least not have to pay to have it done.

 

damm...you kids know your chit!!! Great, informative and very educational reading! Thanks

 

Size of the trees was stated to be 4-5" DBH. A skid steer mounted tree shear would get the job done probably a lot cheaper and with less damage overall.
Check out this video:

 

That skid steer mounted feller is cool, but there is more to the job than just knocking down trees. Op stated he has roughly 4800 to deal with.

 

I hear you, but he also said he wanted to do it himself; that he didn't want to pay to have it done. At 63, he isn't going to do it manually with a chainsaw and a feller-buncher is out of most people's reach if it isn't their living. To me, this is a feasible alternative...
A better alternative is to have someone do it under some land-improvement cost-sharing plan where maybe you can pay a portion or work it out that you eventually break even. That's why I suggested the NRCS as an option.

 

I don't think you understood my post. Let me clarify I'm not saying he should buy any equipment, but have the job done for him.

I'm not sure you understand what 4800 trees is going to look like. Even at 5" dbh it's a lot of work that is beyond the scope of one man to get done quickly even with a skid steer /w shear.

He should be able to have a logger come and do the job and make a little cash or break even. He just needs the right dance partner. Job would be done in a couple weeks vs. Couple years going at it one man with a skid steer style. Just my two pennies as someone who has done real logging.

Your NRCS recommendation is a good idea too. Especially if for some strange reason he can't find a biomas/pulp buyer for his trees. At the very least he should have a forester come out and advise. A forester would also be able to hook him up with potential buyers.

 

I absolutely agree, but I thought he ruled that out as an option.

I have a pretty good idea actually, but I agree with your point. Again, going with the idea that he wasn't going to hire it out and he wanted to do it himself, it was my only suggestion I could come up with that made any sense at all. I could be wrong. I have been before... [/QUOTE]

This is key to making it work, I agree.

This should be done at a minimum. You never know, a buyer could have been talking to the forester the past week that he is looking for just that type of material. I would suggest contacting a state service forester first. Won't cost anything and they may have ideas of what's happening state-wide vs. what the local forester may have knowledge about.

Please understand that I in no way, want to take work away from loggers. Some people either can't find the right "dance partner" and can't afford it to do otherwise, and some like to get their hands dirty on their land improvement projects as much as they can. It might not be feasible overall, but if you get enjoyment from it, why not do some of it at least?

 

I didn't want to hijack the thread so I started another here:Amateur Forestry/Land Management Ideas

Maybe it'll help some folks or give them some ideas...?

 

Thanks for the replies. I was thinking maybe I could do it myself, and I might could do some of it, not sure. As for hiring out, I forgot about a forestry mulcher. Not sure how that would dollar up. I did contact a rental place recently about renting one to blaze trails and I forget exactly what it was but I think it was something like $800/day and you got a break for 2 days, 3 days and a week. I think the week was $3,500. This was a skid steer type machine with a forestry mulcher.

I also found a man who has a forestry (armored) tractor with heavy bush hog gizmo behind it. Looks like a bush hog but has a heavy flywheel with 3 blades. It can certainly clear up a property because I have seen what he did with it. I think he charges about $800/day and that includes him operating it. That's a good deal. However, I do not know if he can clear as many trees as what I discussed in this thread. They might be a little heavy since we are talking about thousands of pines that size. Now, a forestry mulcher, that would certainly chew them up. But I don't know if it's cost effective.

Chainsaw might be out, might be too many trees. As for using a chainsaw at all, also not sure if you would have to "fell" these small trees with multiple cuts like a bigger tree, or just one cut. One cut would sure be easier/quicker!

It would be interesting to take an acre and see just how long it takes to clear it with a chainsaw, lol.

Lastly, I was not figuring windrowing/stacking the pines. I was just going to fell them and let them rot. Main strategy being to open the canopy so the tract can start doing a lot of natural regeneration on its own.

 

fence post maker company maybe?

 

You seem set on diy. In that case I'd say go the skid steer mounted feller buncher Deer Meadow mentioned. I have also seen similar that could be mounted on a tractor FEL.

 

You could go out and try cutting 50 trees and see what it's like.

Probably not a good job for one guy with a chainsaw.