Production Woodstock IS

I would think that the acidity of the vinegar will eat the cat. Yeah it might be minuscule but it's there. That's why they don't want you doing it often.

 

I'm adding some digital instrumentation to my stove. After adding the mechanical cat probe, I found myself not looking at the stove top temp very much. I tend to watch the exhaust temp and cat temp. With these two being monitored, would you even bother with adding a third readout for the stove top? Just looking for some opinions.

 

I'm keeping the STT. My endgame is firebox, cat, STT, and flue. If all goes as planned, by tonight I'll have everything except the firebox probe running. The cat and flue tell me what the burn is doing while the STT tells me how much heat the stove is giving to the room.

 

I honestly don't even use the stove top thermometer anymore. I mainly look at the cat probe and the flue thermometer. Sometimes I look at the stove top one but it's only out of curiosity. No reason to look otherwise.

 

I have the mechanical STT that came with the stove. Just debating whether or not I want to get a digital controller. I'm going to use a PID on the cat and pipe so I can set high and low alarms. My thinking here is that if I'm monitoring the cat max temp then the STT max temp will pretty much follow it. In other words, if the cat is too hot, then the STT probably is, too. Basically, I'm considering the STT a function of the cat temp when the cat is engaged and "settled in" on a long burn.

 

MountainMan what are you using for the digital instrumentation?

 

Gonna try one of these off of eBay

 

Speaking of catalytic probes (slick entrance huh?)....
I found a way of pizzing-off all of you IS owners who have already purchased a 4" Condar cat. probe and delighting those of you who have yet to take the plunge...
For those of you who feel you have crappy draft - stop reading now! Those who feel they have good draft -continue....
Would ya believe you can use a 6.5" cat. probe and NOT have the cat. "raise-up-into-the-tip-of-the probe" when the sled is operated into the open position? (Prove it to yourself: stick a 6.5" anything-that-fits into the probe hole and operate the sled while watching if with the stove top up. Please don't shear off the head of the threaded port plug - use some finesse when removing it)

News flash: The sled does NOT have to be all the way open (bypass) for the stove to be started effectively from cold and CERTAINLY the sled does NOT have to be all the way open for reloads! With good stove-stuffing technique and one-shot cold start-up - this is true. Load 'er up, light 'er up and close the door - BAM! (well; a gentle bam...there is ceramic glass...)
So, as I said above - the sled can be MOSTLY open (bypass) and the stove will light perfectly.

How to reliably stop the sled in the proper position so opening the bypass won't drive the cat. into the tip of the probe?

Limit the travel of the sled. Don't allow it to open fully:
1) lift the stove top (remove all top plates first please - '...hey...what that noise?....' )
2) locate the small funny shaped oblong piece that connects the bypass control rod to the sled (on the extreme left side of the stove just under the top
3) place a small (but proper size) piece of steel under the back tip of the oblong piece blocking the back-side of the the oblong connector from completing it's travel when opening the bypass (I used a 1/2" x 1/2" [or so] long hardened steel bolt or nut - don't remember which. Maybe nut on the bolt and threaded the nut to the proper height to block the oblong connector correctly. The bolt is standing vertically; top of head-down-threads-up)
And VOILA! Bypass opens enough to light. But cat.travel is limited and will NOT contact the tip of a 6.5" probe when in it's position through the probe port.
C'mon Brian (BDF) - try and shoot this one down...you already went down in flames (pun intended) on the stainless radiator shield suggestion I suggested way back when...
Truth-be-told; Brian you are driving all the great engineering ideas on every forum you participate in

AnyWho...there it is...

 

Maybe I'm missing the point of that post but why not just use the 4 inch probe and call it a day?

Can you simplify your point because you lost me. Sorry I have ADHD. I'm not being a duck. Being serious.

 

MountainMan, let me know how that unit works for you.

 

The 6.5" lenth places the tip of the probe in a more appropriate spot above the cat. which (IMHO) would offer a read with greater accuracy.
The 6.5" length (with a magnet as a poster has done to hold it in place) positions the probe tip almost center above the cat.)
No big really.
I am just offering a alternative solution to the question and having a little fun in the process.

 

I bet it's close enough. We really don't need to be all that precise in this game but it certainly doesn't hurt.

 

Well, I still have no explanation for why our stove seems to refuse to breathe, but in testing tonight, I did find out something else interesting.

Our cat doesn't work!

I installed the cat thermocouple probe tonight and I'm running another test firing. The temp at the cat probe rose faster than the temp in the flue. When the in-flue temp hit 500F, the cat probe (with the bypass open) was reading about 750F. I closed the bypass to bring the cat into the circuit and the temp on the probe plummeted and never recovered. It's running within 50F of the flue temp which is about as close as the cheap chinese display can be trusted.

 

Something is wrong. The stove does not breathe and the cat does not work? You either have terrible draft or poor wood. Even with poor draft, opening the ash door probably sends enough air under the coal bed to liven the fire. With the doors closed, the draft has to literally suck air through the inlets.

The Ideal Steel is not any easy breathing stove. Many of us have had to optimize our chimneys to get it to work well. How are you loading this thing? One or two splits or are you filling it up? It will not work well with only 1 or 2 splits. Fill it up and light a good top down fire and see what happens. Get the kindling up to about 1" from the secondary manifold and use lots of it. Getting the secondaries activated requires the wood to be close to the top. Once the secondaries light up and stabilize close the door.


Have you inspected all of your stove pipe and chimney connections? I would bring a chimney expert out to measure your draft. This is how my stove acts.

 

Alex, I'll take "I do not understand the point of this" for $600.

Really though, I am just not getting what you are suggesting here- or perhaps I am not getting why you are suggesting doing this? Don't get me wrong, I thought it was a good post what with all the probe references (get a longer probe, stick your probe in here and watch what it does, be careful with the tip of your probe and of course, you should always try to get a longer probe..... Easy Boys!)

One of the things I kinda' like about the IS is that it basically removes the cat. from the smoke path when the slide is open- useful for those who might burn the occasional material that might not be the best thing for the cat.. But I have not really ever found a need or desire to partially open or partially close the sled- on some stoves that can be useful to light- off a cat. that is being a little restrictive but on the I.S., the stove seems to flow enough smoke, even through an non- operating cat., to allow it to be fully closed without any risk of smoke spillage or 'back- puffing'.

Are you suggesting this to try and light- off a cat. faster in the burn with the sled (bypass) slightly open? Please forgive me for being a bit obtuse but I am concentrating strongly on our two 'statesmen' running for national office and considering which one will move the country, and possible a significant portion of the world, forward and toward overall improvement (cough, cough).

Brian

 

Good points and very accurate in my experience. I think a lot of how successful anyone is with an I.S. may well depend on the previous stove(s) that person has used. Before the I.S., I had been using bottom- drafting, basically 'straight through- smoke path stoves; they light easy and fast, and take huge draft reductions in stride. The I.S. is not like that at all and so at first it seemed to be almost 'broken'. Even after a couple of years I find starting a cold stove with the given draft and cracking the door open a bit to be sluggish, resistive and basically painfully slow. As always, a little bottom draft goes a LONG way to pick things up but closing that too soon will again damp down what seems like a pretty well established fire immediately, at least a lot of the time. I am not talking about only the I.S. or any Woodstock product here but basically all front drafting, modern woodstoves. A 150 year old potbelly stove is much, much easier to light and initially regulate than any modern stove. So moving from an older, more straight smoke path type stove to a modern stove might well baffle the owner (I know it did with me) where moving from a modern, solid bottom stove to another modern stove would not be nearly as much of a change.

So I guess if the poster with the 'cranky, resistant' stove is more familiar with older type wood burners, or completely new to wood burning in any stove, these modern, airtight and very strictly controlled draft stoves will present a pretty steep learning curve and give the impression there is something wrong when really it is just a new design stove. And they are pretty resistive to cold starts along with the transition from what seems to be a pretty well established fire to damping the stove down for the long burn.

Brian

 

My two cents-
I think you have some combination of marginal draft, marginal wood, and marginal weather. It's frustrating as hell, I know. The odds are just so much more favorable toward that end than the stove not working. Having seen the guts of these stove bodies it is really unlikey that is where is the issue is.
The beta testers noticed a sort-of similer change in the stove behavior after going to the production stoves and we were going crazy trying to figure out what they changed. The problem ended up being that the previous spring never had any real shoulder season so we didn't really know that there was a big difference when the temps got warmer. Once I realized that I adjusted accordingly but it never runs as well as when it drops below 10F. If the rest of the setup is marginal this could tip the scale.

 

Point of my post is far more simple as compared to the election ...
IMO the tip of the Probe should be as close to the center of the cat as possible.
A 4 inch probe gets the tip just to the perimeter of the cat ( obviously I prefer it further in from the edge). The reason a 4 inch probe is used is due to the travel of the cat on the sled; a longer probe interferes with fully opening the sled. So, if an IS owner would want to use the 6 1/2 inch probe to get the tip of the probe further toward the center of the cat for more accurate measurements, my first in this series of messages suggests the way to do so.
Again, something a kin to my suggestion for using a stainless protector on the bottom side of the radiator plate. Just another good idea that might be adopted by IS users or possibly Woodstock. hmmmmm....

 

I'm saying that in my opinion the 4 inch cat probe is "good enough". We arent using a probe thermometer to cool chicken to a precise temperature here. Plus I bet that the cat puts out enough radiant heat that the reading is yet again... good enough.

I don't think you gain anything from doing that but who knows you might be onto something.

 

Does anyone live near williaty? Maybe they can take a look and see what's going on.

If you want to send me your cat I'll try it in my stove. Lemme know. Up to you.