Thoughts on dropping this

Hey everyone, hope all is well. Have a question about trying to drop a tree at my brother in laws. Its on a hill and leaning to the down hill slope where it cant get dropped. Not a severe lean but I have never really used a winch to assist with a drop before. Have a winch that can handle 4k so I assume that would be enough to help pull it the way I need it to go. It's the middle one in the pictures.


If i tie up as high as i can get, and then pull with the winch while making the cut do I have to worry about it barber chairing?

 

There is no simple answer here, too many varibles. Yes i believe i could drop that tree off its natual lead (lean), but i dont know your experience level, or that of the person running the wench. I've been cutting for over 35 years and there is only one man I ever let do the pulling, we both know what the other one is going to do before he does it.

 

Think saftey first, whats gona happen if things go wrong. Looks like there is good escape routes for whoever is running the saw. Would it be possible to use heavy equipment to just push it over? A 4000 # winch should help alot if you get the cable hooked high enough up. If you are gona use a saw for this you will need some wedges. Think it through sometimes trees like that are bettet left to the pros.

 

My thoughts exactly. If you can't predict the outcome, is the risk worth it.

 

I'd have to see more pictures before I could comment how I'd drop it Eric VW.

A plunge cut is nice because it let's you set up the hinge exactly the way you want it. It also let's you cut the trigger at the back of the tree and drop it precisely when you want. You can also nip the sides to minimize the chance of barber chair. It's a nice technique that I use alot, but I couldn't tell from a 2d picture wheather I'd use it on that tree. Sometimes dead trees won't support the weight and they crush the trigger. Also something to consider is often times dead trees will break the hinge pretty easy too. I'd probably climb that tree and piece it down.

I'd have to say if you don't feel completely comfortable dropping the tree I'd have a pro do it. When there is a chance of major property damage, it's not the time to try to winch or wedge over a leaner if you havn't done it much before.

Maybe there is a more experienced fellow horder close by who can assist?

 

I know there are lots of variables, there isnt really any chance of property damage. Obviously safety is the number one issue. Was more or less trying to get thoughts or tips on dropping a tree against the lean using a winch.

 

My sorry don't read the above as me busting your nads.

Wanting to drop a tree against the lean with a winch usually implies damage to stuff in the direction of lean. Again my mistake.

What kind of winch is it? How many feet of cable/rope?

Since you seem commited to doing the job yourself, keep in mind, depending on how high you place it, the flexibility of the tree may eat up 15-30 feet of your winch cable/rope.

Also leave the hinge fat. There will be a tremendous amount of force at that small area. If it breaks things go bad in a hurry.

Looks like you have a good crotch there at the top. That's where I'd put my throw bag and line. Throwing from the up hill side will make the shot easier if it's possible.

Let us all know how it goes and good luck.

 

^^^^X2 I'd feel way better strapping on the spurs and cutting it top down.

 

Another thing to consider is this; can the pulling mechanism, be it winch, tractor, pick-up, skidder, etc. take up tension fast enough to cause the tree to continue to "commit to the face" (notch). If not, the tree can fall sideways to the direction of intended fall. Here again, the pull man needs to know what he is doing as much as the faller.

 

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly Scotty. I don't believe a winch will work on this tree. If I had to drop this one I would opt for a 3/4 ton 4x4 pick-up w my trusted partner behind the wheel. It will need some tension speed to keep up w lean forces.

 

I'd pick another one if you're just looking to practice technique. There's a couple things complicating this situation. First, the tree is dead, and this is likely to weaken the hinge wood. If there's no chance of property damage, I was taught to always fall dead trees in the direction of the lean for this reason. Second, if you're trying to fall it up the hill, I'd want the hinge to remain unbroken until the tree is nearly on the ground. If it breaks early, the tree could decide to slip off the stump backwards and chase you.

 

It's really hard to make 3d judgment from a 2d picture. And not enough pictures at that. I agree I don't think a winch gets this job done. I see the hinge breaking and the tree falling in the direction of the picture taker.

 

If that was a live tree I'd tell you to create your hinge using a bore cut. Then I'd back cut all the way out on the bad side of the tree (side lean) but at slightly less than 50% of the tree's diameter. I'd then set a wedge so it couldn't fall back and then complete the back cut on the good side of the tree (away from side lean). Then you can just wedge it over. It may take more than one wedge though and you'd be better off using 12" wedges; shallower angle on the wedge = easier to drive in without the chance of bouncing out.

But since the tree is dead and there is no chance of property damage, I'd tell you to notch it the way it wants to go, forget a bore cut and chase the hinge until it starts to go, then move, FAST! OSHA wants you to work 1- 1/2 tree lengths away from dead trees for a reason. You'd be crazy, in my humble opinion, to try to winch it. That SOB is likely to snap in half while you're trying to winch and cut it at the same time putting the guy on the saw in great risk.

If it HAD to go against the lean and you couldn't get someone with a bucket truck to piece it down, I guess I'd try the same technique as I would with a live tree described above if the trunk wasn't all rotted to hell. But you are likely to get clobbered by a branch trying to wedge it over. Make sure your insurance is paid up to date!

 

My quick take on this. Tie the winch as high as you can, and apply very light pressure, just enough to tension the cable. Make sure your cable is far longer than the height of the tree also. Make your notch and back cut as if it were going to fall the correct way. Once you get your back cut to where you think it should fall, apply added pressure to the winch cable slowly. if it falls, you are done. if not, relax the pressure and take a little more meat out of the tree and try again. That is what I would do, but with extreme caution and a spotter or two. Never have anyone at the base while you are adding tension. I am not an expert, so please use this as my take as if I were doing it. I do not want to see you get crushed based on my advice.

 

Me either. We all need to remember that 90-95% of all fallers killed, are killed within 12' of the stump, the "kill zone".

 

Thanks for all the responses. Again safety is the utmost concern here, and I guess I will take a look at dropping it the way of the lean. There isnt enough room to get the truck and have distance to yank with. Just dont think it has the space to drop towards the lean without getting hung up. But the great thing is the other two are easy and guess what its not me who has to spend the money to have someone come out for the hard one so no worries there! Will keep you all updated and if the rain ever stops and I can link up with my BIL hopefully those other two will be dropped and on their way to my stacks!

 

I'm not saying you should watch these videos and try to cut the tree down opposite the lean if you're not confident.
Just posting it because there is some good information there and a good watch